First HandsFree Transporter Steadicam Shoot!

[Nils Ruinet]

I got to try one at the workshop, it only takes a few minutes to feel comfotable using it without a rig.

It doesn't take much longer to be able to get on it with a light rig (flyer).

 

It feels very natural once you've understood how it works. Lean forward, it goes forward, lean backwards, it slows down (and then goes backwards), and use the pedals to turn left and right (works even if you're not moving).

 

Then again, as Jerry said, you should train for a week or so to be efficient with it on a set. The danger is, you very quickly feel confident, but it's still very easy to crash onto a wall or fall down if you're not careful...

It's a very precise machine, you can hit marks very precisely, it works great for fast movements, but also for very slow ones. And with a bit of a practice, step-ons and step-offs seem to be no problem. It's quite silent, too.

 

so the regular off road segway comes in at $4900 . This is the one I would be interested in for regular use.

 

How much of a bump are we talking about for a relatively simple modification?

 

Well I heard something about at least 4 times as much for the handsfree <_<

But the price hadn't been fixed yet... And I don't know how far the modification goes, compared to a normal segway...

[Thomas English]

So whats to stop me from buying the all terrain segway for $5000 and spending a bit of money working out a modification so I could controll it off the gimble or such like?

 

possibly costing a total of $7000 rather than the expected $20 000

[jay kilroy]

I haven't riden a traditional Segway, but I have rode the Handsfree. There is quite a bit more to the Handsfree then just chopping off the handle bars. I have no idea how to control the Segway, but the Handsfree is done with foot pedals for turning left and right. To get going you you lean forward to go forward and then lean back to stop or go backwards. I think if the rig and arm were attached to the Segway it would be a bit hard to control the Segway and operate the rig. I believe a Segway is controlled with your hands and handles, right?

[Mark Karavite]

From viewing the video shooting of Patrick operating, his movements looked very smooth and elegant. Is there any chance to see the resulting footage?

 

God bless the inventive spirit. It is alive and well in Garrett, Jerry and their partners in advanced vision. Just the look of exhilaration on Patricks's face when interviewed after shooting is enough to get me to want to try one on. Remember back to your first big Steadicam gig, and the feeling you had when you nailed it. Patrick looked like he just won the lottery.

 

Very cool, someone please post rental information if/when available.

 

Mark Karavite

Steadicam Owner / Operator

[Afton Grant]

The traditional Segway is only steered with the hands using a motorcycle style throttle. Forward and reverse remain products of the amount and direction of lean by the operator. Balance is maintained by five gyroscopes mounted at different angles to detect changes in direction. This method of movement is what made the Segway so revolutionary in its design. It's incredibly intuitive, as has been described by the operators here that have test driven it.

 

By the way, I may have a little soft spot for the Segway, since we share the same humble home state where everyone is more or less everyone's neighbor. I truly hope the final price of these systems is far less than the estimates.

 

Cheers,

Afton

[Brad Grimmett]

So whats to stop me from buying the all terrain segway for $5000 and spending a bit of money working out a modification so I could controll it off the gimble or such like?

 

possibly costing a total of $7000 rather than the expected $20 000

Funny, in the other thread about the Handsfree people were complaining about the price possibly being $10,000, and now the complaining reaches $20,000!

Nothing is stopping you from doing whatever you want.....the problem is that you might kill yourself trying to save money. Why is it that every time something new is introduced, within days there are people (that haven't yet used the device) talking about how THEY would do it differently, and how THEY could make it for less? No offense to you personally Thomas, but I'm a bit sick of hearing this stuff. You have no idea how they've made this thing work, yet you think you can do it better and cheaper......I doubt it. You're welcome to try, but I don't think you want to spend hundreds of thousands of dollars on R&D to do it. You talk about spending $7000 to modify a Segway yourself. Well, go ahead, but be careful. You can also build your own stablilizer, but that doesn't mean you own a Steadicam, or that they even do the same things.

[Thomas English]

i think thats a little grouchy to a very valid question.

 

If someone shoots off a quad, I don t have to buy their quad do I. What happened when the first quad was used for steadicam? I would certainly hope nobody had their head bitten off for suggesting they would like a go.

 

The question was intended as a 'can I have a go at playing with segway s too is their a reason I am not allowed'

 

The 4 times the value came from a) this forum b ) a friend of mine who spoke to ulrick the designer

 

I would love to buy ulricks segway, tried and tested. But since the intelligence is in the segway at $5000 I find it surprising that I would be paying $15000 simply for a different controll lever.

 

I am more than glad to pay for top machining and a premium for innovative ideas. I would be more than glad to buy ulricks unit.

 

So.... are there any patent points that would stop me buying a segway and messing about with it.

 

Its nothing like building my own steadicam. As I am still using a segway, just my own controll lever. I am not planning on reinventing the segway.

 

Let s not turn this into a sore /argument, as I see your point and agree. We will just have to wait and see how much these units come out.

 

I would like to buy one.

[Tom Wills]

Well, I mean, I can see and understand somewhat how this works, and it seems like it could be possibly doable, but what you're paying those extra $15,000 for is the fact that if this thing breaks on set, it's not your fault. It works. It's been tested. It won't just fall over and crash for no reason. It'd really be taking a gamble to do this, and if you want to do it, go on ahead, but I wouldn't risk either of my rigs on it. (not even the one that I hate)

 

Just be careful.

 

 

Oh, and on the parallell to homebuilding a rig, there's a lot more knowledge in that community on how these works than there is in Segway modifying. We may still not have it perfect, but at least we know roughly what we're doing. :P (this isn't meant to be a cheap shot at you Thomas, it's just talking about how very few people actually know how the Segway works on the insides)

 

Hey Jerry, do you think there could be one of these at next year's SOA workshop? If so, that'd be delightful. :D

[Eric Fletcher S.O.C.]

Oh, and on the parallell to homebuilding a rig, there's a lot more knowledge in that community on how these works than there is in Segway modifying. We may still not have it perfect, but at least we know roughly what we're doing. :P (this isn't meant to be a cheap shot at you Thomas, it's just talking about how very few people actually know how the Segway works on the insides)

 

 

I wouldn't be so sure about that. Do a quick google search, you would be surprised what you will find about Segway's (Hint all the info to build one is out there)

[Tom Wills]

I wouldn't be so sure about that. Do a quick google search, you would be surprised what you will find about Segway's (Hint all the info to build one is out there)

 

Yeah, but that one seems to have it's downfalls. It's nowhere near as slick as the real one. I mean, yes, it works, but I wouldn't trust myself on that thing. :blink:

 

I mean, yeah, if you really want to try Thomas, all the better, but just be quite careful. Dropping your rig, or even worse dropping yourself is the last thing you'd want to do.

 

And on the whole idea of hardmounting: the Segway moves based on the load being imbalanced, and the wheels speeding up/slowing down to compensate. So, unless you kept the rig directly over the center of gravity, the segway would tend to lean, and cause quite a lot of problems. Theoretically you could undo this, but is it really worth the time and trouble, when you can just wear the rig?

[Thomas English]

Apparently there will be a hard mount version! by the end of the month!!

 

My question was really "Is this JUST another vehicle to operate from" People on this forum have been discussing for years operating off different vehicles, different techniques and different ideas.

 

Is this whole forum not meant to be about thinking and swapping ideas, rather than slamming people because THEY thought they may do it differently. Does our small section of the industry not pride itself on imagination?

 

I have a friend in England who has a few segways and has been doing performance shows on them for a few years. Dressed up as crazy angles. They cane it about town in these crazy costumes appearing handsfree. Actually what they are doing is not holding on in a straight line.... obviously not ideal. At the time I completely dismissed operating off one for this very point. There is a guy that rides a bicycle wearing a steadicam rig, and you can operate by just holding the post but its not very versatile. But there is nothing preventing you from operating off a segway in a straight line.

 

As a separate point, the dangerous thing for them has been their costume getting stuck under the wheels! making them flip/slam in the the ground very quickly with no notice at all!

 

On the subject of it being "the real" unit , While I think the Ulick segway modification is brilliant and if the price is right I fully intend to buy one. It is however the Ulick modification and not officially condoned by segway. I am sure though that he has all the proper manufacturer s liabilities and it will be completely cosha for Tiffen to take it on as a product.

 

So do Tiffen have an exclusive distribution deal for this unit? It seems we will only be able to hire them from Ulick or buy them from Tiffen.

 

This week I will head round my mates yard and get myself fully up to speed riding segways because this is definately the future of a lot of things. The sports camera people must be getting very excited!

 

Has anyone tried Don Juan off one of these yet? Often running shots are designed to be shot from the front. When I run in Don juan I am aware as to how little I know about what I might run into with my field of view only extending for a few meters. We are now discussing the possibility of doing Don Juan and 15mph ! with no grip to guide you! This is possibly a time to rotate your monitor round the other way and have a super long monitor bracket?

 

Congratualations to Ulick for coming up with a working product and Sir Garrett and Tiffen for fostering/specking this development

[Jerry Holway]

We shoot in Don Juan all the time on the Handsfee Transporter, shoot to the sides, whatever direction you like. We can go fast, over bumpy terrain, change directions, hit marks, go very very slowly, and I think (it is my opinion) that it's a great match for the Steadicam. It is very safe to use with a little training; just like being on a quad or a crane can be safe or very, very dangerous.

 

Ulik and Reinhardt modified their handsfree (based on Garrett's advice and several operator's experiences and thoughts) at least three times now to make it Steadicam friendly. So it isn't eactly easy to modify, and they took on the challenge some time ago. Now that they've shown that it is possible (and we've proved riding it is both easy and amazing), it's NOT surprising many folks will say of course it's easy and cheaper (regardless of what price, and unaware of any of the engineering challenges, the devil in the details, etc.)

 

The first time I heard of Segway, I thought it might be good for Steadicam... but I wasn't willing to take the risk and effort to find out. Ulik bought one sight unseen before any Segways were available because he thought it was worth trying for his performance stuff... and after that worked well he thought it might be good for Steadicam and got in touch with Garrett, and now we are close to having production models for anyone who wants to buy one.

 

As for price, nothing has been set as far as I know. If it costs too much vs. its usefulness, it won't sell. A friend of mine thought the Antlers were too expensive, so he went to his machinist to make a copy. Oops, it cost about the same for a fully featured one off of the same quality, so he just bought the Antlers. But if it had cost less he would have made them himself. Either way would have worked for him.

 

I happen to be buying one "price unseen," if that gives anyone a clue how much fun and useful I think this device is.

 

Jerry Holway

[PatrickvanWeeren]

Dear collegue steadicam-ops!

 

Finally I got the time to send a reply! I was amazed by the stability and capacity of the Handsfree and it turned out to work great:

 

The Handsfree was introduced to me by Jerry Holway and Garrett Brown. A German version of the segway originally rebuild for dancers and re-designed for steadicam use.

 

Together with Garrett, Jerry Holway, Ruben Sluijter and Chris Fawcett we tried the Handsfree at the IBC. Jery was the most comfortable after using it at NAB and Cinegear. Luckily we all went to teach at the Paris workshop (joined by Alex, Stefano, Kareem and the students). This gave the rest of us some extra time on the Handsfree, trying to do step on and off... Even a daring crane drive off by artist and co-designer Ulik!

 

We tried the "off-road version"at the backlot of the Paris studio's. Slowly starting with a flyer, we were amazed by it's capabilities on rough terrain. (Ending with a long post Ultra!)

 

All together we trained about a 1,5 week. (Except for Jerry who we suspect drove a Handsfree from Paris to Philadelphia... Apparently he has been spotted by an unknown Belgium operator on the route Periferique doing 100 miles per hour (using an extra engine attached to his back...)

 

The Handsfree has a system involving keys to manage it's speed. There's a black key (slow) yellow and a red key (fast). During the exercises we mainly used the black key, but personally it turned out to be better to use the red key. The red key does drive faster, accelerate faster and turns faster but the advantage is that it also brakes faster, wich seemed to be safer to me. Especially because I didin't have any serious rehearsal on the show. I wanted to make shure that I could stop on time and move away as fast as possible, if necessary. On that video you'll see one take that shows how easy you can stop. (and yes it also shows me bailing out fast once...) I didn't fall, I didn't feel tired and I did feel safe and in control wich was one of my most important concerns.

 

I wanted to be shure that I didn't build up leg-muscle strain/pain caused by standing still. I changed to regular operating from time to time to be safe. To be honest, I was on the Handsfree a lot longer than I expected.

 

Ruben Sluijter was there to back me up and Chris Fawcett, author of the article"some thoughts on steadicam posture (www.steadicam-ops.com), filmed the footage shown on Ulik's site. It was great to have some-one looking at your posture throughout the show. In this way we could analyze the influence of the handsfree on the operator.

 

The show that got the premiere was an international Military music show with hundreds of parading musicians from all over the world. The main challenges of a show like this; is it's scale, symmetry and choreography.

 

Being on the Handsfree your hips are not moving at all when moving. This gives you a great long lens tool. Imagine very slow long lens moves with total control of your hip movement...

I could do long lens moves past the lines of soldiers at a very slow pace without any trouble of speed changes caused to shifting your legs/weight/hips.

 

I guess that's one of the greatest advantages of the Handsfree.

 

Another definite plus was the ability to move in and out quickly. It was a multi camera shoot. (7 camera's) Using the handsfree I could hide in the darkness and move in - out quickly without a dull start or stop to get out of the other shots.

 

I did the same show last year and it also helped me with the obvious fatigue of a 2,5 hour show, and saved me energy wich I could use for framing and other important issue's.

 

The year before I'd be running the same distances to get camera moves around the marching soldiers. You get fed up with tracking simultaniously and you really want to emphasize movement by walking/running against them or go by them in a faster pace.

 

The handsfree worked fine. As a steadicam-operator you're used to look at the screen and your feet at the same time. We put some white camera tape on the left/right turn foot-pedels to be able to see them in the dark.

 

Another advantage of the Handsfree was the fact that you're actually higher than the rest of the people. This gave me great reference to the other camera units and too anticipate on any obstacles.

 

I'm using a regular steadicam without the capacity of a long post.

For my regular lens height I had to boom down. That gave me the great ability to boom up and go over the crowd (even making a little boom up past a tuba).

 

The best thing is the acceleration and it's speed....

 

You do have to practice, I guess it's similar to steadicam, but with the steadicam in mind it's a easier step. You're already used to good posture and changing / shifting your weight. If you want to move slowly you can just move the rig forward, just like when you start to walk..., and the Handsfree will move forward. Remember to always have a good assistant around!

 

I used to say that it's easier to walk up an A-ladder with the steadicam than without one, because you're actually capable to micro-analyze your center of gravity/balancing point. Now I can also say that it's easier to drive.... well eah yeah....probably shouldn'go there!!! But anyway it was a lot of fun and there's a lot of creative potential.... Imagine Don Juan moving backwards at 21 km/hour !

 

Thank you for the nice response!

 

(the gadget on the monitor is nothing else than a simple lcd receiver that shows me the program/other camera's, This is a great help if your not used to multicamera setups. It constantly gives you feetback of the other camera units) (I used my regular video transmitter but used it the other way around...)

 

 

Kind regards,

 

 

Patrick van Weeren

[Christopher TJ McGuire SOC]

I am looking forward to trying the AR with the Segway!

 

 

Best to you all..

 

Chris McGuire

[joe mcnally]

Any chance the Handsfree will be demoed in UK in the near future love to have a go ?

 

BTW Chris finally got my old computer to download the AR demo from Howards site and got to say I was mightily impressed. Who was the operator I noticed Howard in one of the shots so was it you behind the camera ?

When are you bringing the AR to London next ?

Joe