NuendoSan Posted June 1, 2006 Report Share Posted June 1, 2006 For some time I have been playing with the idear of making a new vest design. My basic idear is this. The backmounted vests out there are very nice, but not a lot of improvements in there design, so I sat down with my brother in law and discussed the possiblities of making a new improved design of the backmounted vest. The design of the supporting backpiece will be shaped ergonomically to fit the human backcurve. The existing vests have this issue, that they do not support the full length of your spine/back, but only lower or upper parts, witch makes the vest slow on fast movements. But if you make the backplate fit to the shape of your back all the way - you get somthing quite different. I have been mountainclimbing for many years, and not until I bought a backpack from Bergans in Norway did I get a backpack I could wear all day with 30 kilos and NOT get tired! So I analysed the shape of the backpack, and came up with the design for my new titaniumplated backmounted vest. The arm will be titanium as well, and shaped quite differently from what you have seen so far. Also a different way of ajusting tilt of the connection socket. The vest padding will be a special treated leather, with multiple ajustment options for perfect ergonomic fitting. Hand crafted here in Denmark of course. If all goes well - I will have a prototype ready for IBC in Holland later this fall. So please, pop me a line, if you are interested in a vest like that. Will be uploading some nice 3D pictures of the design, when they are done. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Members Brad Grimmett Posted June 1, 2006 Premium Members Report Share Posted June 1, 2006 The existing vests have this issue, that they do not support the full length of your spine/back, but only lower or upper parts, witch makes the vest slow on fast movements. But if you make the backplate fit to the shape What do you mean by "slow on fast movements"? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NuendoSan Posted June 2, 2006 Author Report Share Posted June 2, 2006 The existing vests have this issue, that they do not support the full length of your spine/back, but only lower or upper parts, witch makes the vest slow on fast movements. But if you make the backplate fit to the shape What do you mean by "slow on fast movements"? When wearing a traditional backmounted vest you have a slope - a small space where the vest does not touch your lower back - only your puts pressure on your stomach. Especially when you need fast movements this however tiny space makes your move back or forth creating a slowdown of your movements. Especialy if you are running or starting to run the traditional vests at some point dosent touch your lower back at all - and this is where you need to lift the weight. I admit it is not much - but it is enough to make you loose touch for a few frames. You should tjeck fotos or video of operators wearing traditional backmounted vests and notice how the lower part of the vest sticks out from the lower back instead of following the curv of the back. This is unwanted because your body is strongest right there. Nature put a slight curve at our lower back for a reason - otherwise our backs would have been straight - but it is not. Designing a new vest shape that takes this curve into consideration - I think - is the smart thing to do - if you are looking for less stress, longer operations time and faster response to your movements. Remember the vest is the point of witch the energy travels from the rig to your body and if there are unwanted spaces you loose precision of movement and the vest slows your movements down. Thats what I mean with slow or fast movements. Hope that makes it all clear. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Alec Jarnagin SOC Posted June 2, 2006 Moderators Report Share Posted June 2, 2006 Nuendo, May I ask which back mounted vests you've tried and what your experience is? Walter Klassen's early vests (then under the DSD title) had form fitting shells that matched the curve of the spine. With the advent of the air bladder, this became unnecessary (notable exception of Grayson Austin who feels they abandoned a good thing - http://www.steadicamforum.com/forums/index...ndpost&p=16300). Have you tried Walter's new vests? With proper inflation, you should not have a gap at your lower back. So, before you reinvent the wheel, take another look. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Members Guido Lux Posted June 3, 2006 Premium Members Report Share Posted June 3, 2006 I can only second what Alec just said! No space with my Klassen harness (upgraded#56 former DSD)! Perfect fit!Don't reinvent the wheel! Guido Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Members Erwin Landau Posted June 4, 2006 Premium Members Report Share Posted June 4, 2006 Do we really need, once more, another design? I would build one for yourself, work with it for a while and then let people try and see for them self if it's something new or just another recycling act... I had issues with the original DSD design when they came out with it. I had 6 fittings/demos over the years before Walter came out with the Air bladder, which finally won me over. I have a mild scoliosis of my spin and a shorter leg (man I'm screwed up!!!), but to that extend that I was able to make a fist between my back and the pads. And that was with the curved back that was the pre Euro design. The bladder finally made the vest fit snug and comfortable. Daniel Sauve came up with the idea and together with Walter Klassen and hundreds of operator inputs, development and arrived at the vest that you see today. Are they all wrong? I tried the Actioncam vest, front and back, and it was a very painful experience. I tried the new DSD by Daniel at cinegear 2004, I felt like on my first fitting years back and it did not work for me. Model 1, Model 2, 3A, Master, Ultra, Ultra2, EFP, SK, Flyer, Bob Crone, Gold vest, Sachtler, DSD, Klassen, PRO, Actioncam... I tried pretty much every vest that has been designed so far (on or off market). And I must say that the best back mounted vest on the market is the Klassen Harness and the best front mounted is the PRO vest. The vest is a very personal piece of equipment, not everybody will like everything, so a design that works/fits you might only work for you... And let's say you develop and start building your vest. Will you be able to handle the demand. Be able to provide the needed costumer service. Will you stop operating and start making vest's 100%? Everybody I know that started manufacturing had to make a decision at what point they had to say goodbye to operating and become a manufacturer, or they decided after a while that they wanted to get back into operating. Either way the 2nd carrier started to suffer. What will happen with your customers once you decide you don't want to make vests anymore? Food for thoughts... Fly safe, Erwin "Happy DSD, now Klassen owner, but still miss my PRO vest now and then" Landau Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Members David Allen Grove Posted June 4, 2006 Premium Members Report Share Posted June 4, 2006 I love my klasson vest! I wonder how many they've sold so far? Anyone know? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Members Erwin Landau Posted June 4, 2006 Premium Members Report Share Posted June 4, 2006 David you are not reading your Klassen update mails???? Hello everyone, I want to update you about what's going on here at Walter Klassen FX. Carbon Head Carbon Head, Carbon Head, Carbon Head!!!!! Walter and the crew have finalized a fantastic new remote head and the launch is here. Find specs and more info about the Carbon Head on our website here. We’re aiming to have it at CINEGEAR 2006 so come by and check it out. Klassen HT Hardmount The other exciting new development is the Klassen HT Hardmount for the Handsfree Transporter. This back mounting handsfree hardmount is conveniently located in the same spot where you’d naturally plug your arm into. The result is the easiest transition to Handsfree Transporter camera shots. Use all your operating skills without carrying the weight! A Harness Milestone Finally we want to congratulate operator Jurgen Badenhorst from South Africa for being the lucky purchaser of Universal series harness #100! Not only did he get a fantastic Dual Mount- GB Series harness he also received a free Klassen Vehicle Mount for having the excellent timing to order #100. Congats Jurgen! Carbon Head Klassen HT Hardmount Cheers, Jennifer and the crew at Walter Klassen FX (416) 778-7848 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Members David Allen Grove Posted June 4, 2006 Premium Members Report Share Posted June 4, 2006 Well, of course erwin! :) I actually did get that email but.. that's only the universal vests right? What about all the different versions combined? My vest number is #139 (Traditional Deluxe) Yea, it took me a few years to take the plunge.. I know... Glad I waited though.. it really is a great vest. It would be intersesting to see a poll on who owns what vest. I don't kwow all the different vests out there maybe Erwin could start a poll? :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NuendoSan Posted June 4, 2006 Author Report Share Posted June 4, 2006 Nuendo, May I ask which back mounted vests you've tried and what your experience is? Walter Klassen's early vests (then under the DSD title) had form fitting shells that matched the curve of the spine. With the advent of the air bladder, this became unnecessary (notable exception of Grayson Austin who feels they abandoned a good thing - http://www.steadicamforum.com/forums/index...ndpost&p=16300). Have you tried Walter's new vests? With proper inflation, you should not have a gap at your lower back. So, before you reinvent the wheel, take another look. Hey Alec' Fair enough. 1. I would like to say, that I have no intention of putting other great vest down out there... I have tried a Klassen Universal a couple of years ago, and Sachtlers backmounted. Frontmounted; Steadicam EFP, Master, Pro, Sachtler, ProGear. I have been flying for 5 years and earned my wings in Munchen under Curt Schaller this spring. The Klassen vest I tried did not have a air bladder - dont get me wrong - it is a supervest no doubt the greatest out there. Dont worry. I have a nice group of steadicam guys here in Denmark helping me out on the test part of the job, and I am not about to release a crappy half build vest to a pro market - am not that stupid. But I still think, that it is possible to improve some aspects of the backmounted vests, and since I am not about to tell others how to build there vests - I just go ahead and do something on my own. I will keep you up to speed - on how things evolve. Thanks for the great interess. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NuendoSan Posted June 5, 2006 Author Report Share Posted June 5, 2006 Do we really need, once more, another design? Do we really need any more movies? Havent all storys been told already - you could ask... well that is a good question, but it kind of takes the progress out of things and leaves us unemployed... Daniel Sauve came up with the idea and together with Walter Klassen and hundreds of operator inputs, development and arrived at the vest that you see today. Are they all wrong? Absolutly not! But does it stop here...? I tried the Actioncam vest, front and back, and it was a very painful experience. I tried the new DSD by Daniel at cinegear 2004, I felt like on my first fitting years back and it did not work for me. The vest is a very personal piece of equipment, not everybody will like everything, so a design that works/fits you might only work for you... You are rigth on here. I can only hope others like my design as well as I do - but luckely that is to be tested in the real world - and hopefully for you to test as well. And let's say you develop and start building your vest. Will you be able to handle the demand. Be able to provide the needed costumer service. Will you stop operating and start making vest's 100%? The thing is. I am also a director of a small production house in Denmark, and the business side of it - is one that I dont worry about - I have 15 years experince in production managment. Everybody I know that started manufacturing had to make a decision at what point they had to say goodbye to operating and become a manufacturer, or they decided after a while that they wanted to get back into operating. Either way the 2nd carrier started to suffer. I am not worried about that yet - who says my vest will be a commercial succes? And if it is... I will make sure you get the kind of service professionals deserve. What will happen with your customers once you decide you don't want to make vests anymore? Well I guess you need to know me a bit better... :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Members Charles Papert Posted June 5, 2006 Premium Members Report Share Posted June 5, 2006 It's always interesting to see new gear as long as it isn't just a knock-off of existing designs that doesn't bring new ideas to the table--I'm perfectly happy with my Klassen but I'd be curious to see what Nuendo comes up with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Members RobVanGelder Posted June 6, 2006 Premium Members Report Share Posted June 6, 2006 Charles, you are right. I was thinking the same. If the guy wants to improve something he should definately try. I love my DSD-Klassen but I also like to see something that weights half of it but has an better performance. Until now that is not available in the low weight - low-cost options. and it should not be cheap, but it has to be GOOD This technology is not in the end of it's development, other people might have very bright ideas too. In this thread I feel that some people don't want to change something that is already very good and discourage new ideas. I'ts my believe that we should encourage new ideas and inventions and don't be too scared about some horror stories of other comapnies that could not deliver at the end. If something is really good, it will hold and find it's place. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NuendoSan Posted June 12, 2006 Author Report Share Posted June 12, 2006 Charles, you are right. I was thinking the same. If the guy wants to improve something he should definately try. I love my DSD-Klassen but I also like to see something that weights half of it but has an better performance. Until now that is not available in the low weight - low-cost options. and it should not be cheap, but it has to be GOOD This technology is not in the end of it's development, other people might have very bright ideas too. In this thread I feel that some people don't want to change something that is already very good and discourage new ideas. I'ts my believe that we should encourage new ideas and inventions and don't be too scared about some horror stories of other comapnies that could not deliver at the end. If something is really good, it will hold and find it's place. Well thank you Rob I think you will find some new idears in my design, that will make your life easier as an operator Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.