Job opportunity in Louisiana

[Alec Jarnagin SOC]

I don't have a problem with Tier 1 films per se. In NYC, much of the crew ends up being non-union in the G&E departments but with some union guys working over them. This introduces these guys to voting union members so when they pass the Local 52 test, they have people to call and ask for their vote (for 52 you have to pass a test as well as be voted in).

 

As far as camera, etc. it does build hours for those in need and relationships. It also guarantees payment and working conditions which can be a problem with non-union. So, on the whole, I think a small pay cut is in order for these things (assuming a million dollar non-union film would be paying a few more dollars an hour).

 

Where I DO have a problem with these low budget films (especially Tier 1) is that the young Producer takes the attitude "this is what the union has said we pay you." Then we need to educate them that the "scale" figure is meant as a MINIMUM for a full time employee who is a conventional operator. Steadicam needs to be at a higher rate and even higher if day-playing (because then the argument of hours is almost moot). End of story.

[Brad Grimmett]

Where I DO have a problem with these low budget films (especially Tier 1) is that the young Producer takes the attitude "this is what the union has said we pay you." Then we need to educate them that the "scale" figure is meant as a MINIMUM for a full time employee who is a conventional operator. Steadicam needs to be at a higher rate and even higher if day-playing (because then the argument of hours is almost moot). End of story.

But scale doesn't exist for operators in the tier 1 contract, so in my experience they just add $1 to the 1st A.C.'s rate and offer that. It's hard to negotiate with them since you know someone else will do the job.

My problem with the tier contracts is that I think some companies are spending more money then they've stated in the contract. Sometimes things just don't add up. When you're on a job with 5 camera bodies full time (6 week shoot), 3 full time operators, 500 extras, shooting 35mm, etc.... it becomes very suspicious. I'm not sure what action to take in this situation since the union only audits a few films a year. What is keeping the producers from simply lying about their budget? They lie about plenty of other things....

[Alec Jarnagin SOC]

"But scale doesn't exist for operators in the tier 1 contract"

 

Actually it does on the East Cost so I don't know what to say. Our rates are higher on this cost, but that is not my point; I'm just saying that I'd like to see these films remain under the IA umbrella. Someone else gave me a PM asking what I was thinking on this matter and my answer is the same. Look, I'm all about keeping rates up so don't attack me. I'm just pointing out that I don't think its so bad that the union is negotiating contracts for films under three million. A far cry from saying that we should be doing Steadicam for $20/hr.

[Erwin Landau]

My experience with the tier one contract so far is that the rates went down and on top the union wants there cut as well... I lost several jobs as I'm not union and the DP's that would like to hire me can't find decent ops for that money...

 

Production is saying that you have several weeks of garantied work and the benefits, health insurance etc... which is a mood point because as a company I have all of that and then some...

 

They are screwing with my business big time.

[Brad Grimmett]

"But scale doesn't exist for operators in the tier 1 contract"

 

Actually it does on the East Cost so I don't know what to say.

Strange. I guess the contract is just different on the east coast than it is on the west coast.

[Alec Jarnagin SOC]

Brad,

 

(and Dan)

 

The Tier 1 rate for operator is pretty awful on the east coat as well. We as Union members should encourage them to push for a better wage on these contracts. My only point about the Union and these Tier films is that I'd rather see them have a Union contract than be non-Union.

 

Cheers

[Rob Vuona SOC]

Brad,

 

(and Dan)

 

The Tier 1 rate for operator is pretty awful on the east coat as well. We as Union members should encourage them to push for a better wage on these contracts. My only point about the Union and these Tier films is that I'd rather see them have a Union contract than be non-Union.

 

Cheers

---------------------------

Hey Guys,

So I'm not sure I am following anymore . . .? East Coast, West Coast or the rest of the country, Tier-1 or other, Union or Not, aren't we saying we should be holding for a minimum amount per Hr. or we just say No!? Right? Unless as a favor for friend or relative . . .I agree with getting my union hours, Lord Knows the Motion Picture Health Plan paid 100% of my shoulder surgery and I am thankful for that! So keeping the union involved and turnin these non-union productions is just fine with me.

 

I can't even say I know any steadicam Ops. that has ever worked for "Scale" (scale being the negotiated MINIMUM rate the union has set, which I can't even say I know what that is. I have never even looked it up.) Aren't we all in agreement on our own set min.scale? Which is far above the negotiated union rate. Just a thought . . .!!

 

I know there's always going to be that up and coming guy that needs to build his resume and is willing to do it for less and the occasional guy that needs to put food on the table for one reason or another, but I guess the best we can do is try to educate all in the community and stick together.

 

One example I can give, recently I couldn't do a gig in Vegas, I had met Robert Starling in Vegas briefly at NAB and I threw his name to the Line Producer. Then I contacted him and gave him the update on what he should charge to ensure there was no confusion for future gigs. And actually I think he got more out of them for rental. So all was good in the world and now he owes me drinks . . .LOL . . .

 

All the best to everyone, and the one good thing regarding all of this is that we are comunicating about it and not hiding behind producers asking us not to tell the others what they are giving us for rates.

[Alec Jarnagin SOC]

Rob,

 

Sorry for the confusion. You are correct. I some how got on a tangent about the Union. Sorry to cloud the issue.

 

Now back to our regularly scheduled programing.....

[Dan Coplan]

My only point about the Union and these Tier films is that I'd rather see them have a Union contract than be non-Union.

 

Yes, but my problem with this is that as union gigs, the jobs perceptually receive a certain legitimacy. The *union* is saying, "Hey, we stand behind these piss poor rates and in fact, are encouraging them. At least you get your benefits...".

 

What about when those multi-million dollar jobs roll around and "at least we're getting our benefits"? Not to mention, with clever accounting and politicking, a multi-million dollar movie can be made to look like a less expensive tier-1 qualifiable movie.

 

On another note (poll-type question), how would you all feel about an operator who takes piss-poor wages in order to qualify for health benefits? I'm close to getting benefits for the first time and could have qualified on the last project I was offered but turned it down. Hard to blame a guy for wanting to qualify, though...

 

Dan

[Brad Grimmett]

Alec,

I was just trying to share my experience with the Tiered contracts since I've worked on a few. I wasn't agreeing or disagreeing, although I tend to agree that it's better that the jobs are union. Whether it's a good thing for the union in the long run or not is a different discussion I think.

 

Dan,

I'm in the same situation as you. I barely missed getting my benefits for the first time just recently. I missed by about 50 hours. Honestly, if a tier 1 job had come along I would have jumped on it, and it would have saved me a few thousand bucks a year in health insurance. Luckily, I don't have a family, so my insurance is pretty cheap. In that situation it becomes a trade off, but if I had my hours already or knew I wasn't going to make it, my decision may have been different. The money may stink, but at least something good can come from it. Many times I've heard people say, "If you're going to do a job for a lower rate you should be getting something else out of it".

 

The truth is, the movies we're talking about are very low budget. You can't get blood from a stone. So you either take it or not, but we're not talking about a situation where the producer is offering 50% less than what they can afford. They may have a few more bucks, but it's probably not much.

[Rob Vuona SOC]

On another note (poll-type question), how would you all feel about an operator who takes piss-poor wages in order to qualify for health benefits?

 

Many times I've heard people say, "If you're going to do a job for a lower rate you should be getting something else out of it".

 

 

Hey Dan, Brad's quote says it best.

And as I said as well, sometimes a guy has to take a job for one reason or another. Making your hours for the health benefits can be very important and I think all of us understand that.

 

All the best

[Daniel Stilling DFF]

I understand all those points. What drives me crazy is that the production I mentioned had a budget of 3 million!! I have made my rate before on 500.000 movies. Don't tell me you can't pay decent rates on a 3 M budget with no huge cast names!

[Grayson Austin]

Thought it was worth revisiting the original topic on this. For "Black Water Transit", Michael A. Johnson is listed as the camera operator, however, he is a steadicam operator as well but either did not put in for steadicam credit(why would you not?) or did not receive credit or did not do steadicam(which I find to be unlikely). So my original question still stands. What steadicam rate was the show done for Michael? Did they end up paying a real rate? or did you do it for the crap rate(regular operator scale plus $2000 a week for gear) and bone all of us? Hope not as New Orleans is my local city and I would hate to get back(I turned that one down and took another job instead) and find out that all the producers want to come in and pay the crappy rate because someone else did it for the lowball rate. This is how I feed my family so I am dead serious about it. I don't think I am asking too much to find out what ended up happening. If they ended up paying a real rate then great, but if not, this is a problem that affects us all and it isn't difficult to find out but I would rather hear it honestly from the person who did the job. I don't care to hear how much more if they paid a good rate, just that they put up a fair rate. Thanks.

 

Very Sincerely,

 

Grayson Austin

[RonBaldwin]

There are several big tv shows here in LA right now with some pretty crappy rates set by the original ops (not always their faults -- maybe originally the production really didn't have any money, but now they do and the rates have stayed the same). As long as people work for the same as a standard op we are boned -- and so are our op brothers who don't do steadicam. Whatever the rate, the steadicam op's rate needs to be MANY dollars above the op's scale.

 

rb

[Matt Petrosky]

I heard that this show pushed. Tony and some others apparently scouted for a few weeks and his gaffer, Tim, was camped out in Louisiana for weeks, waiting. The show pushed and he headed back to LA. May have started now, this news came to me two weeks ago.

 

-Matt