Glidecam V25

[Charles King]

Yep, so true. :) I believe if you're good at what you do then the directors will hire you again regardless of equipment. The equipment does not make the operator. Without the person behind the device the equipment is useless..

 

I'm going to quote a wise man:

 

Charles Papert once said:

Quote:

"...is that a skilled operator can do more with a lesser rig than a novice with the best rig available. ...But only if the operator is has the patience to put in the practice time and learn the skill, 'cause no mechanical stabilizer is plug-and-play by their very nature..."

 

Point made. :)

[Erwin Landau]

The Steadicam and there for the operator is a tool in the Tool belt of the DP to get what the Director wants... Primarily.

 

Yes it comes down to the operator and how he uses the equipment... but talking off things I know... Feature Film Production in Hollywood: The problem is to get on the set and one way to do so is have the right rig. (Here dominantly a PRO).

It's like trying to get by a bouncer that is guarding the entrance to an exclusive Club... No Tie no admission...

 

It's an admission into an exclusive club... that will cost you. Everybody here had to start somewhere and found a way. See it as a first hurdle to get where you want to go... If everybody was meant to get the money and become a Steadicam operator, everybody would...

 

Will the tie... I mean the rig work once you are in... yes until the AC that worked on 10 features with that DP walks over to him and says I don't like his equipment... it's going to slow me (Us, YOU the DP, Production) down... is it? probably not... but guess what the chance that you will be on that show by the end of the week is drastically put in question. And make no mistake... next time something is delaying a Lens change, a mag change anything guess where the first finger will point???

 

Charles, Yes you are right and No you are wrong!

 

Check the market where you are at. What is your ultimate goal that you will achieve? If you are looking to get into Features, Music Videos, Episodic TV etc. Buy a unit that will support that effort. And for god sakes buy used... I'm not saying buy the top of the line Ultra with all bells and whistles... no you don't need gyros, super-post, antlers, PRO arm, Canatrans, TB-6, Preston, tilt stage, monster batteries, Klassen Vest, Rickshaw, Hard-mount, etc. ...

you need something that will get the job done.

 

For a brand new Glidecam Gold, you can find a very nice used PRO or the like and it will get you further and it's upgradeable with newer better bits... don't buy yourself into a corner, where the only way out is to sell your rig and start TOTALLY from scratch. You spend a little more initially but you will save in the long run.

 

If you are doing Weddings, buy a rig that will support the Camera that is usually used. If you do Live TV there are rigs better suited to do that then the PRO...

 

For a while, before I had my website and still to this day, I get cold calls from PA's or UPM's or Line Producers... (not to talk about that ridiculous question: Do you own a rig?) but do you own a PRO/Preston. That's there quick way to figure out if you where doing it long enough to have the right gear for the right job... and sometimes price.

 

I'm a professional Operator and that is what I do for a living... could I make that shot with a Glidecam, of course I could... But why should I make it harder on myself? Is the BFD good enough to do the job? You bet! But the AC will love me for the Preston, because it makes his life just that bit easier... I don't lose a single thought about my equipment once I step on set. I can commit my entire attention to the DP and the Director to figure out what they want...

 

I walk over to my rig put the camera on, Give the AC my FF, get the shot, pick up my check and go home. No stress, no sweat (at least not about my equipment) and happy clients...

 

I can't count how many time people called me because they didn't had a piece of equipment that they should have bought years ago, but now need to get the shot and keep there job.

 

But at the end it will be up to you on what you can afford and are willing to afford...

 

Just one last story: I was working on 2 features at the same time and one day they over cut by a couple of hours. I told the production that I'm available after 7pm because I was on the first until 6pm. No go they need someone at 5pm... tuff luck. But I told them if they changed there mind, I was available after 7pm.

The day arrives no call from the other company... okay lost one. 5:45pm I'm wrapping my gear on my first show and the phone rings, the line producer from the other show calls to ask if I was still available for a 7pm call. I said yes and was wondering what had happened in only 45mins as the had'nd even started rolling yet...

Long story short, Late arrival by the op, didn't have the right cables for the camera, send someone to pick them up from a friend... friend brought wrong cables... DP got fed up. He was a goner and they called me back.

I'm sure that that op was a capable op but the lack of the right equipment prevented him to ever show of his skills...

 

Just my 2 cents of chibberish,

 

 

Erwin

[Charles King]

Good advice but I'm done trying explaining myself. :) Used pro at the price of a V-25??? Mmmm Try finding one: Anyway, Good luck Maurice. It's your decision to make. :)

Edited May 26, 2007 by Charles King

[Afton Grant]

Used pro at the price of a V-25??? Mmmm Try finding one.

 

I think I'd agree with you, Charles. So would Erwin....

 

For a brand new Glidecam Gold, you can find a very nice used PRO or the like and it will get you further and it's upgradeable with newer better bits...

[Charles Papert]

Since CK quoted me earlier I'll qualify those thoughts...

 

It's still true that good results can be had with "lesser" rigs. And there's nothing wrong with getting a starter rig as long as you can justify to yourself that you may be finding yourself moving on in the near future. I've heard many new operators at workshops claim that they will never become a "serious" Steadicam operator, i.e. working in features, only to become just that. Even more apropos, buying a rig based on these sort of things ("I've only ever worked in DV, I'll NEVER shoot 35mm, so I won't need X and Y rig") can bite one in the ass pretty quick. But again, as long as you are open-minded to the possibility of turning your rig over and starting again. The nice thing (this may have already been said, sorry) about getting an elderly PRO/3A/EFP type rig is that you can upgrade bit by bit as you can afford it, and eventually end up with the whole enchilada. This as opposed to buying a system that is not easily upgraded (Master series, Glidecam) and will eventually need to be sold intact (and likely devalued).

 

As far as the whole perception thing about the brand name or appearance of the rig, I'm sure that this is very dependent on where you are and who you are working for. And once you have been fired from a job because of your gear, you learn pretty damn quickly what you need to do about it. I moved from a 3A to a PRO because the 24v converter wouldn't keep the Moviecam running at speed, and subsequently the other Steadicam days on the movie "went away", at least for me! Ordered the PRO shortly thereafter--and getting back to what I mentioned above, I'm still using certain of those original components to this day, although they are becoming fewer and fewer (5 separate manufacturers represented on my sled alone, I'd call it a Frankenrig but that has not-so-great connotations). Meanwhile, whether it is right or wrong there are indeed people (directors, DP's, line producers etc.) who like to pass judgement on equipment that may be entirely unfounded, or perfectly correct. Chances are if they have been burned once, they will be wary of anyone who appears to be offering the same setup. A poor operator in a V-25 is more likely to great a negative impression than a poor operator in a Steadicam-brand rig or a PRO, simply because the latter are considered industry standard and known performers.

 

There is a pretty unique thing about Steadicam in that if one is a novice, it's difficult to throw on a rig at a trade show and know whether it is "good" or not (compared to evaluating cameras, for instance). And there is also no way to know how demanding a given user will become about their footage; what some of us on this board (and the people we work for) might consider" lesser" operating may be perfectly acceptable for a given user and the people that they work for, and thus a lower-performing and less expensive rig may be a perfect fit.

[Erwin Landau]

I was talking about the Gold... as most of the work here in town is 35mm or HD and you need a certain pay load for that...

 

But just for the sake of the argument...

 

The Glidecam Gold System Includes: ($24'995.-)

 

- Glidecam Gold Vest

- Glidecam Gold Arm

- Glidecam Gold Sled with NP-1 style Base

- (with Anton Bauer Style Base at a $1000.-)

- Glidecam L7-Pro LCD

- L7-Pro LCD Video and Power Cable

- Anton Bauer QR-7 LCD Battery Plate

- Jerry Hill Docking Bracket with Gore Lock ($1095.- value)

- 1 Camera Power cable with 3-pin Lemo Style to 4-pin XLR

- 2 BNC to BNC video cables

- 1 Gold Video Camera Plate

- 1 Setup and Operations Guide

(No batteries or charger included in that quote)

 

 

Taken from recent Steadicam Classifieds:

 

- D-Box 1 (Mint condition)

- 3A Gimbal (New Condition)

- PRO Super Post (about $400.- in labour to cut down to regular size) together $3900.-

- Transvideo Monitor with Monitor Arm $3500.-

- PRO 1 base with 9 batteries and charger $5000.- (need recelling, add $100.- per battery $900.-)

- 3A arm $5500.- (needs work $2000.- but still)

- Master Vest $2000.- (would never buy a used vest, just for the sakes of price)

- 3 PRO camera plates $400.-

- Misc power and video cables for PRO $1500.-

- Used Gorelock fork $300.- (Add a new balancing beam $500.-)

 

 

Just a quickie run down from equipment that I have seen or been offered since the beginning of the year. And you end up with a set up that will serve you very well... for a couple of years to come.

 

Again that's the price for admission... don't forget that people are paying you rental for your gear as well, if you can't afford that, you can't play with the big guys in the sand box.

 

Just my point of view... take it or ignore it, up to you.

 

 

Erwin

[Robert Starling SOC]

And there's nothing wrong with getting a starter rig as long as you can justify to yourself that you may be finding yourself moving on in the near future.

 

Hi Maurice, having just bought my third rig in nine months I can relate to just about every post and opinion all these great ops have offered you. Almost every one of these guys have helped me in small and large ways get my Steadicam operator career started on the right footings. Thanks to each and every one of you!

 

Up to last year my 27 year career as a camera operator consisted primarily of jib, aerial and underwater with video / HD. When one of my jibs got stolen last year a friend said "why don't you take a look at Steadicam". I had no idea it would become SteadiCrack for me and reinvgorate my enthusiasm in operating.

 

Last August I started with a Flyer and a workshop, in October I lucked into an open spot at an SOA workshop and immediately realized that #1 I was hooked, but also that if I wanted to be competitive and fly the cameras I normally fly on the jib, I'd have to step up beyond the Flyer. I traded the Flyer and bought a Clipper 2 that week... and committed to daily practice and marketing.

 

My previous contacts were a great help getting work but I had avoided investing in remote focus, cabling, wireless transmitter and other AKS. Then one day about four months ago the phone rang and I got on as Steadicam / B camera for an HBO series...starting in like two days. Thankfully I had just met Will Arnot while he was here on a big feature shoot and he loaned / rented me his Bartech kit until I could get one and a bunch of other ops helped as well. Like Erwin says in so many words, you've got to have the tools to solve the problems. Now that I have most of my basic tools and AKS, that same call would have not evoked quite so much panic. Remember to budget for ALL the parts and pieces you'll need to offer your services at a competitive level. On almost every job they've asked me what rig do I own; though I don't really think they know the differences so much but they want to hear something familiar.

 

I've also invested in two other workshops... yes, four workshops; probably the best money I've spent in the nine months.

 

The purchase of rig #3 came about as I knew I wanted to move up to film jobs and would either need to convert my existing rig to 24v or buy a 24v rig. I also wanted a multi-section post to go higher and lower; a request I had from a Director just two weeks ago to go high-mode. A former SOA classmate was interested in my C2 so I sold it and stepped up to the C24 which gave me both. There is no way I want to turn down a film job when and if that call comes (and it will one day). I want to be prepared and confident, not scrambling for parts; that was a terrible feeling.

 

This is probably an oversimplification but as Steadicam Operators it's a close knit family. Albeit disfunctional at times. Within the family there are a few bloodlines in the way of product loyalties which becomes a family within the family so to speak. I fell into the Steadicam brand side because I truly did not know of the other brands. None-the-less, Tiffen has been a good alliance, they have treated me very very well and in many ways I couldn't have gotten this far without their support; specifically the support of Peter Abraham. To be fair, I took a two-day PRO workshop earlier this month to get a different POV and they're a great group too. Their equipment is totally top drawer and I've heard their customer service is as well. In retrospect, I might have went PRO but I have still have no regrets with Steadicam at all. Then there are the hybrid rigs with a mix-match of parts that give that operator his or her best scenario and comfort level for their style or type of work.

 

The point I'm trying to get to here is whatever you buy, you have to assess and place a value on the intangible aspect beyond just the physical equipment and it's performance. It's a great group of people and most any operator here will do just about anything to help a fellow operator out. I'd send, drive, deliver, loan whatever/anything in my kit or the whole kit to most of these guys but if they have PRO or something else, there's not much I can do if the parts are not compatible. In LA there are a lot of PRO and Steadicam rigs so there's a large support base, but here Vegas all I know of is my Steadicam, a Pro-Vid, an XCS Ultimate and a MK-V. You should look at the support from other ops you might have in your area and the ease of access/service from the manufacturer. Once you go to one brand or another, it can be costly to switch just in cables alone.

 

Sorry to go so long on this and I hope it helps you.

[Lars Erik]

I know it's not a perfect world but the truth is not all DP or directors will know the difference. I guess it all depends where you live. In the US, maybe, but I still don't think it's a point to base on this kind of decision. Again, I am NOT saying do not buy a high end rig. All I'm saying is get the facts and realize your present career endeavors. If you cannot get a loan or don't have the budget, you have to start some where. So you would probably have to settle for what you can afford at the moment. That's if you're buying your first system. Or just rent a Steadicam system if you really want a steadicam system or any high end rig.

 

Charles,

 

Maurice did say he had ?16.000, which is about $21.500. So in that sense, bringing up other systems than a Glidecam etc, into this discussion, is actually a valid point. And all ops in this thread have made great points. And the bottom line is that all of them are trying to give Maurice good help, so that he can buy a system he's happy with. Be it Tiffen, Sachtler or Glidecam. We must also remember that this forum consist of very experienced ops like Will and Erwin. So listening to them is a factor to keep this forum as good as it can be. I'm not saying if they say jump, we say how high, but they are experienced.

 

Now I agree with parts you say, one shouldn't care if one has a Glidecam or a Steadicam or PRO or whatever. But this is the real world. And that is what we must base our decisions on. The point to make, is that word gets around fast in this business. And if I owned a Glidecam, I wouldn't worry about the people I've worked for. I'd worry about those I hadn't worked for. For example, this is a true story. I met a DP a few months ago. I told him I did Steadicam. He said great. Then he said; "it isn't Glidecam is it? It's a real Steadicam?" Now that is what I mean about people you haven't worked for. If I said I had Glidecam or anything like that, he never would have called me up later. At least not in my market. The doors open so much easier when you say you own a brand name system. Period.

 

Maurice; you MUST take a workshop. It's good learning and incredibly fun. Take a workshop with Jerry. In many workshops he has, Chris Fawcett is also tutoring. He lives in Amsterdam. And maybe Job can help you also. He lives in Holland also. Maybe they can help you about what kind of rigs people in Holland prefer.

 

LE

[camuse]

Hi all,

 

Thanks for all the advice ;)

I'll probably put some extra bucks aside to get the brand !

 

It is the real world, and I don't want to risk missing out on jobs simply because the director hasn't heared of Glidecam.

That said: I've worked with the V25 rig and it does deliver.

 

I really do have to enroll for a new workshop; I've taken one three years ago, but I find it's time for some brushing up !

 

Thanks again for all the great advice.

 

Maurice

[Mike Marriage]

Although I've been pleased with the performance of my V25 (it makes smooth shots), I agree with what others have said here in regards the brand. You do occasionally get comments about it not being a "Steadicam", but as my work with the rig has been on quite low budget projects, they don't complain too much. I have also actually covered most of the Glidecam branding on my rig.

 

I am now thinking about upgrading to something bigger (and "brandier") but I don't regret buying the V25. I got a very good price on it as one of the early buyers and it has been a great practice rig, as well as earning some money. Thinking about it, it is more the brand reasons than the actual technical limitations of the rig that make me want to upgrade. If I want to move on to bigger productions, I can't turn up with a "Glidecam."

 

Remember though, that just owning a branded rig won't get you work. Make sure you have a proper business plan for how it is going to pay for itself and then continue to make you money. If you are pretty sure that you can pay it back reasonably quickly, then by all means spend more.

 

The advantage of 2nd hand rigs is that they won't loose as much value. The price I got on the V25 (helped by my dealer making an exchange rate error) made it a win-win situation for me. I could sell it now for more than I paid for it new.

 

My suggestion is that unless money is no object, buy what makes the best business sense. That may be a Merlin, a V25 or a Ultra 2.

[Lukas Franz]

...before we close that threat, I like to add the following:

 

I'm shure it is very important to represent yourself with a good brand rig in the U.S. Especially in LA. But I think in Europe producers think a little different (I can say this 'cause I'm one of them too). The business is somehow different as it is overseas. Not many people here know the difference between a Glidecam and a Steadicam. Most even don't understand why I call it a Steadicam and not a Steadycam. Mmh. I'm shure Lars and Job can agree with that. In Switzerland nobody cares about brands. It's a Steadi..ehm...Steady Cam. Point. So many operators own rigs from all over the world. I know people here using Pro, Glidecam, MK-V (no comments please, Will!) and of course Action Products from Brian Goff.

 

Anyway, different markets, different customers, different needs. Find out what's best for you.

 

Cheers, Lukas

[JobScholtze]

When i used Glidecam, 99% of my clients didnt care at all. The only where intressed in the results.

Now i use MK-V Nexus, and 99% of my clients dont care, as long as i deliver the shot. 99% dont even know the difference, only that its expensive.

 

Producers who are smart could notice the price difference of the equipment, but i never did see any " smart " one.

When i used the Glidecam, it took me 4 month to pay it back. Now i need a bit longer lol, A hole bit longer

Make the choice based on the market your looking for and what you can spend.

Nuff Said

[camuse]

Well the market is the Dutch one, and I'll listen to Job about that, as he is Dutch as well.

For a short while it seemed I could get my hands on a broadcast master, but the deal was a bit too good to be true.

So I don't dare to go on with that deal.

That brings back the V-25, which is basically perfect in price for me and from what I've experienced; does deliver.

 

So I'm going to go with the glidecam, hope I'll have it next week.

 

Thanks for all your support and insight ! :blink:

 

Cheers,

 

Maurice.

[Erik Brul]

Well the market is the Dutch one, and I'll listen to Job about that, as he is Dutch as well.

For a short while it seemed I could get my hands on a broadcast master, but the deal was a bit too good to be true.

So I don't dare to go on with that deal.

That brings back the V-25, which is basically perfect in price for me and from what I've experienced; does deliver.

 

So I'm going to go with the glidecam, hope I'll have it next week.

 

Thanks for all your support and insight ! :blink:

 

Cheers,

 

Maurice.

 

And it is a market which getting smaller and smaller ... <_<

[Stephen Press]

I was working for ITN in the UK and they sent me on a short Steadi Cam course, I loved it and I knew what I wanted to shoot off after that but a guy turned up at ITN the very next week to demonstrate a new rig called Action Cam. I was very impressed with it and more importantly could afford it. It paid for itself in that first year. 10 years latter I?ve never regretted buying it. Yes I spend more time on the phone explaining what the hell Action Cam is than I like. Yes I have to sell it as a viable alternative and yes I?ve made a few mistakes, I put it out at a slightly lower rate than Seadi Cam thinking because it was about a third of the purchase price that was fair, it just seemed to give people the wrong impression, I raised the rate and picked up more work?

Coming back to New Zealand has been hard, everyone wants Steadi Cam, at least until they have seen what I can do with Action Cam, the problem being getting them to try it. Marketing, marketing and more bloody marketing when all I want to be doing is shooting.