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sony F23 any experiences


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I was at Panavision yesterday with Chris Konash trying out the F23 in one-piece mode.

 

He weighed the setup - stripped camera, deck, digiprime (10mm), clip-on mattebox, rods plate (no rods) at 51lbs.

 

On his clipper 2, with 2x dionics on a hotswap, and a little additional weight at the base, the sled was not terribly long, but the arm was definitely maxed. As a last resort, it could be flown on the G50, perhaps with a few rubberbands, butit's definitely above the limit even with no accessories.

 

But, the bigger concern was that with the Clippers / Archer / etc... the lemo at the stage will likely be overdrawn by the current demands of the camera and deck combo. Chris suggested that to actually fly this setup, you would have to split the sides and power one item off a p-tap running to the sled base... just so you don't fry things.

 

So basically, if you want to fly this camera one-piece on a Steadicam, you need a big arm. And large power connectors.

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I think the sled would have to be even longer if it was lighter then a Clipper 24 sled

Hi Philip,

 

I should have explained better: the 5 extra pounds on the Clipper is spread about the sled. On a modified Archer (such as Lars Erik's), you can add that all 5 lbs at the very bottom, allowing you to shorten the sled somewhat. In theory, although you are looking at a less robust rig in the Archer, it will fly a heavier camera than the Clipper with a G-50. Lars Erik now uses a G-70 with his Archer sled to allow him to fly even heavier cameras.

 

All the best,

 

Chris

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Hi Jaron,

 

Did Panavision modify that F23?

Tiffen had similar concerns about that 3-pin leno.

 

Maybe this is a camera that should fly in the 2-piece mode for those of us with lighter arms. Weight and power would not be a problem that way.

 

Hi Chris, Hi Lars

 

Got any Pictures of this Modified Archer? I?d like to see it if you get a chance.

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That would be a better question for Chris, though as far as I know it was bone stock. The deck itself draws >8 amps continuous off of 12v!!!!! That's the main reason (from what I'm told) the Genesis is such a beast to power, and apparently this is worse. Luckily, if you need to fly it 1-piece, there are workarounds. Between a p-tap cable and a few rubberbands, you could make it work on a G-50....not the best setup though. 2-piece would certainly be more comfortable all day long, and give more options for accessories. If you do intend to do this combo often, it would be worth at least calling someone to see if you could modify your connectors to the larger lemos. Also, Chris came up with a pretty slick 3rd battery mount that goes on the lower gyro dovetail, and can feed either 12 or 24v power up the sled, to deal with high-draw cams on standard batteries. You have the C24 though, so you may be better off just getting a few powercubes.

 

As for the weight difference between the Clipper and Archer, I'd be surprised if you could in fact fly more weight on an Archer. The majority of the weight of the clipper is already at the base, and it telescopes the weight further down than the archer (even modified), so it's basically a wash. More importantly though, with the standard modification people are doing to the Archer - hanging more weight off the inside of the rails, the moment on the rails is FAR greater than with the clipper, possibly allowing more flex and vibration. I can't confirm it, but I know that with 2 batts on the back of my Clipper, the rails are almost all the way in, and by basic physics there is a lot less leverage to flex them. Not saying it doesn't work on an Archer, just that in theory the clipper should be stiffer. for the same given weight capacity.

 

 

Again though, this is stepping into the "it doesn't REALLY work" territory. Sure it can be done, but if I'm flying F23's daily in 1-piece mode, I'm going to upgrade everything to make it less stressful on my mind and rig.

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So

 

After a month of shooting with the F23. Well actually 2 weeks. The F23 was sent back to get something fixed, color shifting in the blacks. I will say it has been easy to work with. The saving grace for me has been a control and power box that the DIT Barry Minnerly made for the cameras. The box has been named the "barry box" and it has removed the issue of power on my end (please see photos below). The box snaps on in place of an Anton Bauer battey and power, remote run to it. On top of the box is a 4 pin xlr so I can give the camera power until Barry can, the box senses and switchs to the greater power source.

 

The end result is I have 3 or four BNCs coming from me and connecting to a Big fat 5 bnc cable that runs to the DIT. I have been stuck with a sony 900 until the F23 returns, so I need a fourth BNC to get NTSC return for my monitor (no aja box or updated board for the 900). So I have 3 super liteweight BNC's and 1 slightly thick grey bnc (for power) that run from me to the DIT. they consist of HD, Remote, ntsc return and power. Barry is sending 70 volts @ 1 amp to the camera.

 

Yes, a cable on the rig is less that idea. But I have yet to meet a DP who, given the option of being cabled and having the ablity to shade the camera during the shot, would not have me cabled. Plus I have no desire to entertain carrying the F23 with deck and such.

 

The "Barry Box" Has made my life easy. I don't need to worry about power and the DP has full camera control. I would recommend e-mailing Barry Minnerly(barry@vigits.com) about the real nitty gritty. He has only made 2 and is full time on our job but this could be a real aid to operators out there.

 

I know I have forgotten something so I'll do my best to keep updating.

post-199-1188181298_thumb.jpg

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Hello,

 

The Panavision F23's have not been modified. We have our own list of accessories that work with the camera without any modifications to the camera bodies. Besides the optics and electronics there are only a few operational difference between the Genesis and the F23, a few pounds in the body construction, and the Panavision lenses are heavier. So in reality the F23 will be lighter depending on the choice in lenses. The camera and deck draw roughly the same power between the Genesis and F23, F23 is a bit higher because of the extra electronics for the ramping option. The other nice thing is the 3/8X16 mounting plate on the F23. If you mount this directly to the dovetail plate and skip a quick release plate you can drop the center of gravity of the camera to be closer to the gimbal. I was able to shorten my rig by about 1 foot.

 

Powering the camera(12V) and the Deck(12V) when docked together will overdraw the lemo on a clipper 3pin connector. Conveniently the Genesis and F23 use the same 8pin Lemo power connector. Regarding Steadicam operation a lot of shows that go out, we forget about the 24V input to the camera unless they have a Panavision zoom lens, and power everything 12V (24V is only for accessories, not for the camera/Deck), Prestons, Transmitters, Panatape/Cinetape are almost all auto sensing 10-24V. For conventional shoothing there are the Panavision 12/24Volt batteries and Panavision power supplies which supply both voltages. I have made power cables for the genesis which break out the different legs of 12V the Genesis use. The camera uses 3 pairs of 12V. Powering up the camera with 2 legs of 12V will keep each under 10 amps and usually avoids any overdraw issues on connectors or batteries.

 

Barry and I have talked about his BNC "Barry Box" and it's very cool. Barry needs 10 more Barry's to mass produce his great inventions, ICON Down converter, Stop Box, Fiber Adapters, "Barry Box", etc.....

 

If you want the special service and these custom power cables for your rig you'll have to rent the cameras from Panavision. Also if you want to power the F23 in one piece mode off of batteries or on a power supply you'll also have to come to Panavision. Sony doesn't produce any factory options to power the camera in one piece mode and the new Anton Bauer batteries are not available for sale in the US yet.

 

Sure I'll think of more later.

 

Chris Konash

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I think the sled would have to be even longer if it was lighter then a Clipper 24 sled

Hi Philip,

 

I should have explained better: the 5 extra pounds on the Clipper is spread about the sled. On a modified Archer (such as Lars Erik's), you can add that all 5 lbs at the very bottom, allowing you to shorten the sled somewhat. In theory, although you are looking at a less robust rig in the Archer, it will fly a heavier camera than the Clipper with a G-50. Lars Erik now uses a G-70 with his Archer sled to allow him to fly even heavier cameras.

 

All the best,

 

Chris

 

Hey Chris and Philip,

 

I don't know the weight of the F23, but I did a F900 shoot recently.

 

Camera:

 

Sony F900

Pro35

Lenses vary from 16 to 50mm

Sony BLP V-lock battery (camera)

Dionic 90 (CanaTrans & Preston)

CanaTrans

Preston sender + motor (VF something) (12v)

Custom bracket for Dionic 90 battery for CT and Preston

Matte Box Chrosziel

4x5.6 Polarizer filter

Rod system

Custom made camera bracket (for less vibration)

 

The camera weighed in at about 17 kilos / 37 lbs

 

 

Anyway, with this setup, I lengthened the rig not very much, this due to the bottom part, where I have Hytron 120, a Archos 500, and 3 weights I attach with velcro. The rig was more short than it was long. The weights I use make this possible. But I've done a lot of experimenting finding the correct weights, They had to be a certain size, I've tried placing them different places on the bottom end, and I've tried different weights. But I've found some that is perfect for my set-up. It lets me get DB pretty easily with most cameras, and and I operate freely with the ones I have now. PS! The drop time was a little over 3 seconds.

 

 

LE

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As for the weight difference between the Clipper and Archer, I'd be surprised if you could in fact fly more weight on an Archer. The majority of the weight of the clipper is already at the base, and it telescopes the weight further down than the archer (even modified), so it's basically a wash. More importantly though, with the standard modification people are doing to the Archer - hanging more weight off the inside of the rails, the moment on the rails is FAR greater than with the clipper, possibly allowing more flex and vibration. I can't confirm it, but I know that with 2 batts on the back of my Clipper, the rails are almost all the way in, and by basic physics there is a lot less leverage to flex them. Not saying it doesn't work on an Archer, just that in theory the clipper should be stiffer. for the same given weight capacity.

 

I'm in complete agreement with you about the appropriateness of a rig like the Clipper for carrying heavier cameras as compared to a lighter rig like the Archer. I mention it only as a curiosity that Lars Erik, Mikko, and I have all flown heavier packages on an Archer than a Clipper can fly with the G-50. The limiting factor is the arm.

 

All the best,

 

Chris

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I'm one week away from flying the F23. I've read all the posts but have some questions and need some clarification.

 

* How does this camera handle in low mode as a one-piece unit? From what I've read it seems like it would be awfully unpleasant. If it's pretty much not worth it and the DP asks me to shoot low mode, then perhaps I should go tethered for the whole shoot. Seems like it might be less hassle than going one-piece regular mode and then switching to tethered for low. Thoughts?

 

* Do I understand correctly that as a one-piece unit, it's not possible to power the camera from my sled (PRO)? The camera is coming from Clairmont, not Panavision. Or if I misunderstand, what's the solution and recommended batteries (Anton Bauer mount)? I'm going to do my best not to subject my personal battery stock to this project. Sounds like I might need a custom cable?

 

* Overall preference - one-piece or tethered? I have a feeling it's going to be a pretty Steadicam intensive show. I don't mind flying heavy cameras, but if flying one-piece leaves me wobbling after a half day of shooting, that's a consideration.

 

Dan

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Dan:

 

I haven't had a specific experience with the F23 but after 3 jobs with the Genesis, all of which required full-time tethering so the DP could always see an HD picture, I can't see any reason to go one-piece with that camera (and it sounds like the F23 is only marginally lighter but the same power-hog). If you have to deal with one HD-SDI cable, why not just add on another one and save your back and batteries?

 

For me, until the flash drive is available, it's two-piece or no thanks, find someone else.

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Charles, I agree totally!

I had the "pleasure" to carry the F23 with deck and Optimo HD lens and mattebox/follow focus around on the workshop with this machine in Bangkok........., not on Steadicam, but just to put it on sticks.

Let's have the same mentality towards this machine as we (should) have towards the BL3/4/Evolution and others: Just say NO until they have figured out something lightweight!

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