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sony F23 any experiences


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Is flying a camera like the F23 in one-piece or tethered mode exclusively the choice of the Steadicam op or does it fall to other crew members and if so, why would they care? The only thing I understand is that to go tethered, a separate piece of equipment is required to process the data and this could result in a higher rental?

 

Dan

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Yeah, the "toaster" is a separate setup, not sure what the additional rental is on it. There are arguments that some make about possible interference between the camera and the deck, but many shows have been shot in two piece mode without problems now. Can't see who else could make a more relevant argument about this than the operator. Your worst case scenario is a previous operator who has, according to the DP, "flown it one-piece without any complaints, don't see what the problem is".

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Last weeck-end, I was trying... I said...Trying!! Work with that new monster HD-CINE ALTA of SONY... was impossible, or too much dificult. Too much load. We, the steadicam ops., we could work with this camera if the magnetoscope was separated of the camera.... With a cable....( with his problems). The weight is similary to an ARRI 535 fulled with 300fts chassis...

I send a pict with a A-camera handleop. with the monster... Boys think abot it.

Best nightmare.....

post-4379-1193107331_thumb.jpg

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With a cable? Try with TWO cables and solid core at that. Slinky flexy cable need not apply. I'm working with the camera right now and it SUCKS! I'm necessarily flying it tethered and I still haven't figured out the best way to manage the cable for minimum interference. I'm developing bad habits as a result and my operating is not up to par. Additionally, because it's HD, the DP who is actually very cool, understandably wants me to mount the rig to frame up shots so I do a lot of tripod work so he can light. Then they want me to run through rehearsals with the paintbox cable plugged in. They know it affects the shot and it's just for lighting and painting but that doesn't make me feel any better.

 

Weighed the rig today - tethered it's 75 lbs. including my vest and arm, 45 lbs. camera and sled only.

 

BTW, I did handheld with the camera as well, but had a handheld setup. I'm sure it makes a big difference compared to the photo you posted. It's heavy, but manageable.

 

Dan

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Hey Dan,

 

Talk to Fred Davis at Production Cable Services. He has some lightweight 75ohm cables that I used on a Genesis job in 2 piece mode. I ran Fred's cables for about 7" to get off the sled, then barrelled them into 13' cables into the VTR on the toaster. According to Panavision, they don't want more than 30' of cable between the Genesis and the toaster, so I assume that rule would apply to the F23.

 

Keep in mind, I only used 2 cables for 4:4:4 mode, or 4:2:2 mode over 30fps. Otherwise, the bulk of the dialouge was shot in 4:2:2 at 24fps, so I only had to fly one cable off the rig. That was quite manageable. They're not as light as the spaghetti cables I have for monitoring only, but much better than what a DIT will give you.

 

Good luck,

Mark

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Finaly, I worked whit the F-23. Well... sensations...like workinkg with an Arri 535 with 120 fts..... And I feeled it right. I send pics about the camera configuration.... And, no more. It was only an small shot... For 5-6 seconds... When I work harder with that camera, I´ll speak about It.

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Hi Guys,

On a Commercial with the F23 at the moment.

 

Heres the scenario:

Using the camera on Steadicam - seperate to the recorder which is tethered via a cable (multicore BNC).

works ok, except...

 

-When we change frame rates (59.97 fps?) , the test output switches from a PAL output to NTSC? ....go figure. Lucky my monitor does both.

- If we need to do a shot travelling more than the cable will reach - gets very annoying.

- Cables suck

 

Heres the scenario I had today:

(B camera) Jogging shot on a beach, 40mm (about 75mm on 35?) tracking, profile with some guys running on the waters edge. I do 5 - 6 takes, and push myself physically, to get some great shots.

Just when I'm sure we have it, one of the assistants discovers that the recorder is switched to colour bars which we have been recording for all our beach shots.

Very frustrating for me and especially the camera assists.

 

We do another few takes and get the sequance again, without colour bars.

 

This is the last job i'm doing on this stupid camera, SONY need to learn that tape is ancient.

Get with the times SONY, the RED camera is a dream to work with and even though all functions arent finalised yet, it shits all over the F23.

 

Bulky, plastic, old style betacam menu system, power hungry, = a boat anchor; although im not sure it would even be sufficient for this.

 

 

its Film or RED for me...

-AJ

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Hi Guys,

On a Commercial with the F23 at the moment.

 

Heres the scenario:

Using the camera on Steadicam - seperate to the recorder which is tethered via a cable (multicore BNC).

works ok, except...

 

-When we change frame rates (59.97 fps?) , the test output switches from a PAL output to NTSC? ....go figure. Lucky my monitor does both.

- If we need to do a shot travelling more than the cable will reach - gets very annoying.

- Cables suck

 

Heres the scenario I had today:

(B camera) Jogging shot on a beach, 40mm (about 75mm on 35?) tracking, profile with some guys running on the waters edge. I do 5 - 6 takes, and push myself physically, to get some great shots.

Just when I'm sure we have it, one of the assistants discovers that the recorder is switched to colour bars which we have been recording for all our beach shots.

Very frustrating for me and especially the camera assists.

 

We do another few takes and get the sequance again, without colour bars.

 

This is the last job i'm doing on this stupid camera, SONY need to learn that tape is ancient.

Get with the times SONY, the RED camera is a dream to work with and even though all functions arent finalised yet, it shits all over the F23.

 

Bulky, plastic, old style betacam menu system, power hungry, = a boat anchor; although im not sure it would even be sufficient for this.

 

 

its Film or RED for me...

-AJ

 

PAL is for 25/50 fts, NTSC is for 30/60....

kind regards...

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Hi Guys,

On a Commercial with the F23 at the moment.

 

Heres the scenario:

Using the camera on Steadicam - seperate to the recorder which is tethered via a cable (multicore BNC).

works ok, except...

 

-When we change frame rates (59.97 fps?) , the test output switches from a PAL output to NTSC? ....go figure. Lucky my monitor does both.

- If we need to do a shot travelling more than the cable will reach - gets very annoying.

- Cables suck

 

Heres the scenario I had today:

(B camera) Jogging shot on a beach, 40mm (about 75mm on 35?) tracking, profile with some guys running on the waters edge. I do 5 - 6 takes, and push myself physically, to get some great shots.

Just when I'm sure we have it, one of the assistants discovers that the recorder is switched to colour bars which we have been recording for all our beach shots.

Very frustrating for me and especially the camera assists.

 

We do another few takes and get the sequance again, without colour bars.

 

This is the last job i'm doing on this stupid camera, SONY need to learn that tape is ancient.

Get with the times SONY, the RED camera is a dream to work with and even though all functions arent finalised yet, it shits all over the F23.

 

Bulky, plastic, old style betacam menu system, power hungry, = a boat anchor; although im not sure it would even be sufficient for this.

 

 

its Film or RED for me...

-AJ

 

PAL is for 25/50 fts, NTSC is for 30/60....

kind regards...

 

Yes I understand that, but it really is stupid. It shoudnt matter what frame rate you shoot at, the video output should always be one standard - PAL or NTSC (depending on where you are)

Designed in Japan by technicians....

-AJ

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"Just when I'm sure we have it, one of the assistants discovers that the recorder is switched to colour bars which we have been recording for all our beach shots.

Very frustrating for me and especially the camera assists."

 

This should never happen. Of course, color bars need to be recorded at the head of each tape, but the camera should generate color bars, not the VTR. Color bars are a reference for post that represents the camera's colorimetry, not the VTR's.

 

I was on a show where a less than experienced DIT came over to the A camera, and I saw her switching the VTR to bars. I sent her on her way, telling her the AC was more than capable of setting the CAMERA to bars and striping tapes. She wandered over to the B Camera, set the VTR to bars, and we shot a whole scene with B Camera in bars. Her ignorance and stupidity cost us a 4 hour reshoot later in the schedule.

 

Just say no!

 

Mark

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Hello All,

 

I had the pleasure of flying the F23 this past Sunday on a feature. After talking to the AC's and doing some research we decided to fly it in the 2 part mode. I've used 2 highly flexible HD-SDI capable BNC 6FT jumper cables since we were recording in 4:4:4 mode on the "Toaster" with about 30FT of cable going to it. Digi Primes were used as lenses. The camera was outfitted with the Sony interface box that also incorporates an A/B battery plate. I was using a HYTRON 140 that was given us power for about 45 minutes and ads some nice weight the camera body.

 

I had no problems balancing it using the normal XCS plate on my DBIII. The weight was approx. 2-3 pounds lighter than a similar PV/LW setup.

 

The nice part about this camera is that the internal down conversion has only 1(!) Frame Delay instead of the usual 5 Frames on any other HD camera that I know of.

 

Overall it was very pleasant experience.

 

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post-1790-1197431246_thumb.jpg

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