Premium Members RonBaldwin Posted July 2, 2004 Premium Members Report Share Posted July 2, 2004 how do you post a picture on this thread...I have something you need to see. RonB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Members David Allen Grove Posted July 2, 2004 Premium Members Report Share Posted July 2, 2004 Ron, For some reason you can't post photos on the General Thread. I think you can on all other threads though. Maybe put it on the off topic thread??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Members ChadPersons Posted July 3, 2004 Premium Members Report Share Posted July 3, 2004 First of all I feel that there is nothing wrong with companies or people creating their own "knockoff" rigs. I have a Pro but last I checked no producer has ever offered me more rental because it was the best rig out there. Its a free market that helped build America. Not only that but competition between manufacturers inspires innovation. I can see the train of thought where more people can buy rigs because they are cheaper and then with less invested can try to undercut the rest of us. So what should we do, make all rigs $100,000 to keep out the riff raff. You need to be a good operator to work not just have an expensive rig. There is a steadicam operator right now working on a show for $36 an hour as a local hire out of state. I was called to replace him for double his rate after they realized what they got themselves into. I preferred to stay home and play Xbox. The point is that sure this guys kinda screwed us by taking the deal but at the same time he made the producers realize that you get what you pay for. The cream will rise to the top. Second of all... In making my deal at the West Wing it was made very clear to me that there is a crack down on steadicam rates by all the shows at WB. If you are afraid of us organizing to create a minimum rate for steadicam than lets wait a little longer so that the producers can do it for us. Come on... Lets learn from history. Why are there unions? What do non-union employees make compared to union employees? What medical or retirement benefits do non-union people get? If tomorrow we all agreed that for episodic television full time employment our minimum hourly would be $69 an hour who would complain?...other than the producers? Day players at $100 an hour maybe? Commercials???? If you are a good qualified steadicam operator join the SteadicamGuild.net and lets continue these healthy discussions and maybe work something out before we are all making operator scale. Chad Persons Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christopher TJ McGuire SOC Posted July 4, 2004 Report Share Posted July 4, 2004 Just wait till they get aload of the A-R! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Members Lawrence Karman Posted July 17, 2004 Premium Members Report Share Posted July 17, 2004 Well I was lucky enough the other day to finally meet the desperate guy who took the crappy offer of low scale to operate Steadicam on "The Clubhouse". His name is John Hankhammer. Next year when we are all offered HBO rate to operate Steadicam he will be one of the people you can thank for that. How little confidence in your operating abilities do you have, John, that you were afraid to say no to that offer? Did you really think you would never get offered another job again if you, like others here said no? You said you need the job. Well guess what. I've hardly worked in the past few months, but I said no and a few weeks later got another job offer at a much.much better rate. And what kind of agent do you have that would advise you to take this job? Low rate minus 10%? Come on. I know you monitor this board and I would love to see your response. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Members RonBaldwin Posted July 18, 2004 Premium Members Report Share Posted July 18, 2004 great googly-moogly that's a harsh post. Let's not blame the end of life as we know it on one person when he's number 942 of 1500 who have taken lower paying jobs. I have, you have, we all have. Nobody gave Jeff Mart shit for undercutting me 4 years ago (he came in for $1k with rig AND compact and about 15 years more experience than I had). I know several ops who were underbid by Andy Shuttleworth when he was getting started here in the states -- it happens. Don't get me wrong, I have no problem with these guys -- I'm sure I've taken a job or two that have pissed some off, perhaps you have too. I talked to John a few days ago and he, like everyone before him, could not get the rate any higher. They were willing to bend a small bit with the equip -- which I believe they upped by $500/wk. I know that only works out to about $7/hr, but that's as high as they would go. I remember when I interviewed for Gilmore Girls, the rate was $38/hr for A-camera/steadi (!!!), but they were offering a decent equipment rental (compared to what I was used to). I declined, but I actually considered it because I had nothing going on at the time. Would I have taken the job...no. But ask me again after not working for a few months and maybe I'd be a bit more willing to compromise. Ron B Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Members Brant S. Fagan SOC Posted July 18, 2004 Premium Members Report Share Posted July 18, 2004 Gents and Ladies-- I would have to agree that the supply and demand ratio has not improved in terms of take home pay, credits, and benefits. I would also suggest that as a group, we must band together now more than ever as this issues must/ should force us to take a stand and not "give it away." It seems to me that I get a higher rate by asking producers and UPMs to take a look at my demo and then let's discuss rates. This tactic has worked for me on a week long commercial shoot and even on a NYU student film. (I haven't done a student film in like ten years, but it is Panavision and only about an hour from my place in NH!) Granted, the Under Armour shoot was a BANK fest, but the NYU deal doubled their Steadicam budget (from No-Way rate to OK why not). If they only have $500 a day, why bother when our costs are much higher. Sure, they can hire the greenie for that but sooner or later they have to look for a pro-level operator to get the job done! My experience has shown that asking for a higher rate can make for a nice tilt in the playing field of negociations. True, it can place you out of the range of some work, but by asking enough questions up front, you can make a more educated negociation and hopefully work it out to your benefit. Granted, most think of Steadicam as a One-Man(Woman)-Band job, but if we act cohesively as a group/team, we all stand to benefit. It takes time, but isn't it worth it in the long run? You all make the call! Best, Brant S. Fagan, SOC Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Members Peter Abraham Posted July 27, 2004 Premium Members Report Share Posted July 27, 2004 This is always a tough one. I started out going out the door for about $ 750 a day, and that was 17 years ago- and I was considered low but not atrociously low then. ( NYC rates ). At some point ( pre-agent ), I stopped going out the door for less than about $ 800 a day for me + $ 500.00 for the rig. That was the threshold, and aside from a few true favors I wanted to do, I held to that. Best I ever did was $ 2,300 a day for 10. Blew my mind. The world has changed to a large degree since that day and I find it difficult now to figure out what rate is acceptable. The force of the studios and producers to make us lower our day rates and rentals is huge. I am not sure it's the influx of new ops, I feel it's more likely the overall pressures to reduce, reduce, reduce. The pity of it is, you still get what you pay for. They're just trying to pay less...... Peter Abraham, E.M.T. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattmarek Posted July 27, 2004 Report Share Posted July 27, 2004 "the pity is, you get what you pay for" not in the case where they hire an experienced op for $500/wk - gear!!?? that's insane! i remember some of you guys bashing canada a while back because our crews worked for less than yours did. now you're doin it to yourselves. i think this is my first post on the new forum this year as i've been shooting in russia and india the past 5 month's, so i hope some will remember me hugs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Members RobVanGelder Posted July 27, 2004 Premium Members Report Share Posted July 27, 2004 Hi Matt, sure we remember you! A serious question: you mentioned that you worked in India and Russia, can you give any estimate in what the pay for a Steadicam operator in those countries? I heard that in India it is really, really low. Or did you work for a foreign (not india/russia) company so on a different rate? Rob van Gelder, Bangkok, Thailand Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Members RonBaldwin Posted July 28, 2004 Premium Members Report Share Posted July 28, 2004 "i remember some of you guys bashing canada a while back because our crews worked for less than yours did. now you're doin it to yourselves." where do you think the producers got the ideas for capping these rates so low? Ron B Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Members RobVanGelder Posted July 28, 2004 Premium Members Report Share Posted July 28, 2004 where do you think the producers got the ideas for capping these rates so low? Producer "don´t get idea´s" like that, it´s just their job. And I am very certain that the increased availability of operators makes rates go down. Let´s face it, there are many rigs out their. Rigs usually don´t get trashed, they are re-used, re-furbished, rebuild into newer, better systems. Not like old cars that you have to dumpafter a while. So we have to share the soup together. And the soup has not increased in size as have the people on the dinner table. I have lost a job resently to one operator for an american production here in Thailand. He has a modified EFP + Bartech, really basic, I have a Master + Preston, he has little international experience and hardly speaks English, I have a lot of int. experience and speak 4 languages. BUT, he was quoting half my price and got the job. Oh, he included a focuspuller and transport to the other side of the country. Easy choice for the line-producer and he got away with it! As much as I like workshops and teaching others the beauty of Steadicam, I also see that at the same time the market is becoming (over)saturated because of the relative easy access to a rig. And it is like video: if you know the on-off button, you are "cameraman" = if you can "hold" the rig, you are "operator". At least in the eyes of budget-squeezing producers. Rob van Gelder, Bangkok, Thailand :( Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Alec Jarnagin SOC Posted July 28, 2004 Moderators Report Share Posted July 28, 2004 Rob, Ouch, ouch, ouch. That's gotta hurt. Thinking of visiting Thailand this winter; no worries, I'd be leaving the rig at home! Good luck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattmarek Posted July 29, 2004 Report Share Posted July 29, 2004 ok, keep your $500 p/week kit rentals and $36 per hour gigs. minimum i've heard of us producers up here paying is 2 day per/week kit rentals and an hourly marginaly higher than $36. blame it on canada. puhlease. you guys are great at finding fault outside the border. :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Members RonBaldwin Posted July 29, 2004 Premium Members Report Share Posted July 29, 2004 I guess I should have put a smiley face after my post -- I was kidding. Rob, we all know why rates go down, thanks for your explanation. And sorry for your recent screw. Sounds like the producer will get exactly what he's paying for. Matt, I'm obviously out of the loop being down here in LA, but I worked in Vancouver a few years back and I thought operator scale was well into the $40's (atleast that's what the local op was making). Like here, I'm sure the IA has several low budget deals -- $36 is a common rate here in LA for a camera operator on first year shows/low budget contracts. You keep mentioning $500/wk kit? I'm guessing that I confused you when I said the equip rate was upped by $500/wk...I meant $500 over the original kit, which I then said to be roughly the same as an additional $7/hr. Sorry I was so vague. Oh, and here's your smiley...:) Ron B Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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