Next Generation Handsfree

[chris fawcett]

I found steering a bit tough--but I recognized that it would just take a bit of time and practice and I'm sure it would all fall into place.

The pedal steering?

[Charles Papert]

No, Eric has the pedal-free version. They were telling me to press my thigh against the support to get it to rotate in the desired direction, which seemed to take much more force than I found comfortable. As I said I don't think I was really doing it right as it didn't feel particularly comfortable nor intuitive. It probably didn't help that the rig was mounted goofy-foot which added to the psychological confusion as I never operate that way.

[chris fawcett]

Maybe it's not for everybody, but I'm sure with a little practice, you'd get it. Mostly, it's intuitive. Only, as with any Segway, going backwards is like riding a bicycle with your arms crossed?if you ride in the conventional manner. This might only make sense if you have experienced what I'm talking about, but I'll try to explain.

 

Riding conventionally, if you are travelling forwards, and want to turn left, you lean left. All good. You are leaning into the turn, and balance feels right. If you want to turn a 360 on the spot, you lean left for anti-clockwise, and right for clockwise. This puts you somewhat off balance, since you experience no 'righting' force from the momentum of the turn. If you go backwards, and lean left, you turn right, and this is uncomfortable, especially with a rig on.

 

I've found that the best way to ride the Hansdfree is to turn your whole body (never more than 45 degrees, usually less) into the direction of the turn. So, your feet are planted square on to the machine, but from the knees up, you face the direction you are heading. This movement, keeping knees, hips, and shoulders parallel rotates the knees such that they push the control stick to the side as well.

 

If instead of leaning left and right to turn, you just rotate your body, you can see immediately that 360s are going to feel more comfortable. Apart from better balance, it feels good to see where you are turning towards. Imagine rotating left for an anti-clockwise 360. If you now lean forwards, the Handsfree is impelled to move forwards as well, so you are now executing a left turn, and because you are slightly rotated left, leaning forwards also moves your centre of gravity left relative to the Handsfree. So you are in balance for the turn. Now the payoff. If you lean backwards from this position, your cog moves right relative to the Handsfree, so when the machine executes a right-handed backwards turn, you are also in balance. It sounds complicated, but takes only a minute to learn.

 

This is another reason I like the leanie version best, and why I think it is more intuitive. With the pedal version, you have to rewire your brain to cope with the pedals turning you the 'wrong' way when you go backwards. With the leanie Handsfree, and using this 'twist' technique, the whole relationship between you and the machine is fluid, and is what makes switches from missionary to DJ and back so sweet. The experience of operating on it as exhilarating as pulling an ollie or carving through powder.

 

Roll safe!

 

Chris

[TROYm]

I built one (with Reinhard's kit) a couple of weeks ago- i've already shot a TV pilot and a commercial with it. LOVE IT.

 

With the new Segway X2 platform, and the hands-free mod, you do steer with your knees - but i didn't have a problem - it was intuitive and once i dialed in the clearance for the garfield and my preferred footing it was a breeze. Even shot car to car, err - i mean segway-cam to car, going down Wilshire -shooting Don Juan.

Biggest problem- is I need a trailer for my asst - it's a real drag splitting traffic lanes while pulling your own focus...

 

Troy

[Jon Beattie]

I have seen alot of footage and photo's of the Ops with the pedal version wearing both from and backmounted vests. But I have not seen anyone operating the new x2 style control with a vest on. just wonder who has and what they though about it.

 

Hardmount is the ideal i guess unless you are doing step ons and offs. But wasn't sure how the leaning to turn would effect operating while in a vest.

[chris fawcett]

I have seen alot of footage and photo's of the Ops with the pedal version wearing both from and backmounted vests. But I have not seen anyone operating the new x2 style control with a vest on. just wonder who has and what they though about it.

 

Hardmount is the ideal i guess unless you are doing step ons and offs. But wasn't sure how the leaning to turn would effect operating while in a vest.

Hi Jon,

 

I've operated the 'leanie' handsfree with a vest, and if I understand your question, I still way prefer it over the pedal version. There are no adverse issues whatsoever with softmount (apart from carrying the weight).

 

Step ons are tricky, with step offs being relatively easy. In both Handsfree models, you have to avoid the steering gear on the step-on, and clear it before the step-off. I don't think there is an advantage to either model in this respect.

 

Best Regards,

 

Chris

[Jon Beattie]

Thanks Chris,

Also in looking at how the system works. I see that you can adjust the saddles in and out for size. But that the handsfree control has an adjusting knob for playing with the the rigs influence on the segway. How much do these knob adjustments effect the setup. Is it fine tuning or a gross adjustment. Have you found that you've had to use it much?

[chris fawcett]

HI Jon,

 

The knob I think you mean is the control to move the saddle fore and aft. You use it to set up where your centre of gravity is in relation to the Handsfree. It's mostly set and forget, but you tweak it for different loads.

 

STOP PRESS on my statement about step-ons being tricky. Reinhard has just re-tweaked the software so that when the machine is in 'riderless balance mode' (that just means it is ready for use), steering is reduced to 20% of normal. So when you are mounting it, you can be more reckless?the control post waggles with little effect. Once all four rider sensors are engaged, the software now ramps the steering up to normal. I look forward to testing that tomorrow.

 

Fun!

 

Chris

[Jon Beattie]

HI Jon,

 

The knob I think you mean is the control to move the saddle fore and aft. You use it to set up where your centre of gravity is in relation to the Handsfree. It's mostly set and forget, but you tweak it for different loads.

 

STOP PRESS on my statement about step-ons being tricky. Reinhard has just re-tweaked the software so that when the machine is in 'riderless balance mode' (that just means it is ready for use), steering is reduced to 20% of normal. So when you are mounting it, you can be more reckless?the control post waggles with little effect. Once all four rider sensors are engaged, the software now ramps the steering up to normal. I look forward to testing that tomorrow.

 

Fun!

 

Chris

 

Chris,

 

On the 2nd gen segway's you can self program from the remote. Is that where the steering function has been tweaked or is is something further than that.

 

I'd alo like to know what you think about the hardmount Reinhart produces. I don't know about your experience with the klassen hardmount. But Reinhart's seems to be way more adjustable and he claims a 46kg max load. Walters is very fixed, but like most of his stuff looks to be able to support a house.

 

I prefer being able to make adjustments. But with 46kg max if one was fully loaded and were to be shooting in a ruff area I'm a bit concerned that the forum would be getting some wonderful photos of bits of gear smashed on the ground and me crying.

[chris fawcett]

On the 2nd gen segway's you can self program from the remote. Is that where the steering function has been tweaked or is is something further than that.

 

I'd alo like to know what you think about the hardmount Reinhart produces. I don't know about your experience with the klassen hardmount. But Reinhart's seems to be way more adjustable and he claims a 46kg max load. Walters is very fixed, but like most of his stuff looks to be able to support a house.

 

I prefer being able to make adjustments. But with 46kg max if one was fully loaded and were to be shooting in a ruff area I'm a bit concerned that the forum would be getting some wonderful photos of bits of gear smashed on the ground and me crying.

It is beyond self-programming from the remote, as I understand it. Best ask Reinhard yourself on that one.

 

I rode Walter's hardmount once, and liked it a lot. Reinhard's version is much more adjustable, and very strong. He had an aircraft engineer design it, so the 46kg load limit includes all the factors you mention. It is a conservative estimate. Reinhard, who weighs considerably more than 46 kg swings from it to show its strength. It is made from aircraft-standard aluminium, and I never detected it flexing under even Reinhard's abuse.

 

I think Walter does not offer the leanie version, so your preference there might affect your choice.

 

Thinking of taking the plunge?

[Jon Beattie]

Its funny Reinhart told me it was just a reprogram from the remote. And then said the you would be the guy to refer questions to.

 

Yeah I'm thinking of taking the plunge. Going to a dealership today.

 

I also thinking able getting larger wheels made to increase speed. And would have to come up with a way to raise the fenders on Reinharts to give the wheels space.

[chris fawcett]

That is funny. It seems these adjustments are made through a level on the handset I haven't accessed.

 

Faster? Good luck! you'll get less range for sure.

 

Have a ball,

 

Chris

[Mike McGowan SOC]

This thing looks too good to be true! How loud is it? Could it be used on a stage shooting sound? How does it handle rain and or puddles on the road? Would you ever use the standard version (not the off road version) for steadicam or only the off road version? How much vehicle space does it require to move and how much does it weigh?

 

Are they 20k exactly?

 

and,

 

Where do I get one?

 

tnx,

 

mm.

[Jon Beattie]

Mike,

I've road a i2 (thats the smaller unit) the sound is super quiet, but on a soundstage I'm sure a sound guy may give you a look.

 

the i2 is 19x25 105lbs

the x2 is 21x33 120lbs

 

they make loading ramps. The other solution is a seghauler which is $300+ and it plugs into your tow hitch.

 

as for the cost they are around $20k

 

I'm looking seriously at the x2 i think i would like the options of going on the beach, rough ground and taking curbs. if it rents and works enough then i'd look at the i2.

 

The i2 would be way more stage friendly and was build to make it through doorways.

 

I've seen video of the x2 taking 15+ stairs. But thats with handlebars. I would say a curb is about as daring as one should even build up to.

 

They are build to be able to work in weather, puddles, snow.

[chris fawcett]

Hi Mike,

 

I'll second all that, and add that the basic i2 Segway is deliberately louder than it need be, so people will hear it coming. Reinhard makes sound dampers for it. The x2 has more tyre noise, depending on the surface. I think they work out about the same. If you consider them as vehicle mounts, they are extremely quiet?noisier than a dolly though!

 

Ramp loading is easy, because the machine powers itself up the ramp with a gentle push. Two people lift it easily. I lift mine on my own when I have to. The x2, though heavier, has lifting handles, which makes it perhaps easier to handle. I don't begrudge lifting it, since it does all the lifting for the rest of the day. You don't absolutely need a trailer. It fits into pretty much any European car, so in America, it will probably fit into the glove compartment.

 

I'd consider the x2 model as the standard Steadicam unit. The difference between the two models is basically the tires, so you can buy an x2 handsfree, and have 2 sets (or 3, if you want golf-course friendly tyres too).

 

I asked Reinhard about rain and puddles too. He said I could ride it along the beach, and get salt water on it. It's well sealed, but having said that, I don't think I want to go that far. I'd operate going down a single step, or off a pavement, no problem; but not up?not yet anyway.

 

I'm a big leanie fan, so I'd really recommend that. Read the earlier post about riding technique, and you'll be switching on it in no time. Yesterday, I was playing with my (Reinhard's) hardmount, and realised I need to spend a whole day checking out all the mounting possibilities. It is really cleverly designed, and beautifully engineered. I'm smitten. OK, I'll stop now.

 

You can contact Reinhard through his website: http://handsfree-transporter.com/ His email is: rental(at)handsfree-transporter.com

 

All the best,

 

Chris

 

P.S. I found out last night that Segways now have the curious Dutch legal status of gedoogbeleid (technically illegal?but what the hell) shared with other substances loved and dimly recalled by tourists from all over the world, so I'm off for my morning coffee now?handsfree!