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Alec, Panavision NY said the F23 power cable is exactly the same one as the Genesis, only in a different position. It comes out the back corner at a 22.5 degree angle, instead of out the side like the Genesis. Since I operate on the left side, I am still going to get the L connector at the camera body to avoid any clearance issues. It seems we have conflicting reports on the power cable. I should have looked closer at NAB.

 

Unfortunately the two that I've test flown have different power plugs than the Genocide.

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Mark - You are correct about the VTR being off board and only recording fixed frame rates. You are also correct about the Option 103 board and 444 over 30fps. As for the V-mount for the Power Cubes; IDX makes an adapter plate that goes from your AB mounts to the V-mount. It is small, thin and may be cheaper than changing out the AB mounts.

 

As for the question about the power cable. The Genesis power cable is the correct cable to use with the F23 (or the F35 whenever it releases into the world). My main recommendation is that it is always a Y-cablewhen on the rig. You want to pull from as many conductors as you can through the post. It seems a lot of the posts run a 20 gauge wire through the post, 18 would have been a lot better (but I am sure size and weight were a factor in the decision). The three pin lemo connector is rated at 10 amps per pin. F23 with the VTR is going to pull about 8.5 to 9 amps during recording. 1 amp less when not recording. Pulling from 2 connectors on the D-Box splits the draw between them and makes it safer for the cable in the post and the connectors on the D-Box. During hand-held that means a single power cube with the F23/VTR/Eyepiece is right at the limits of the battery. Anything more added to the camera exceeds the power draw that the Power Cube can handle. The battery will not last. It will shut down before it is fully discharged and can have negative long term side affects to the battery(but that is why you guys rent them).

 

Eric is right about needing two sets for 444(each set is a Transmitter and Receiver). Panavision will only supply 150 meter fiber cable. If you need different length, you will have to supply it. We have tested the Rattlers for monitoring purposes only. I know of shows using them for recording. Production would kind of be on there own if you are going to record from them. I do recommend that if you are going to buy cable to make sure the bandwidth is high enough. That has been the common problem in the past.

 

As for flying 1 or 2 piece: I can say that most shows go 2 piece. As operators, I know this will not mean as much to you, but the cables (BNC or Fiber) have to be treated like gold on set. The camera Master is being carried down that cable. Bad cable has been the biggest problem when it comes to 2 piece operating. (Note: if you wrap the fiber too tight it will lose signal)

 

We are trying to get the SSR to work on the F23. It is just going to take more time.

 

Good Luck Mark!

Dominick Aiello

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Indeed, and it is probably worth mentioning that Dominick is the foremost go-between when it comes to Steadicam concerns with Panavision gear; he's an operator himself and is familiar with our gear and needs, so anyone heading into their first experience with the Genesis (or any of their cameras for that matter) would do well to touch base with him with questions or concerns and he'll make sure you get what you need. A most excellent chap.

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Dom was a great help when I shot that test with the SSR last Feb. Easy on the weight training though -- you are intimidating me! To be a real steadi op you'll have to live on a steady diet of beer, scotch, chips and salsa. Then you'll fit in better!

 

rb

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Dear Dominick,

 

Thanks for chiming in. A couple reply's to your comments:

 

"As for the V-mount for the Power Cubes; IDX makes an adapter plate that goes from your AB mounts to the V-mount. It is small, thin and may be cheaper than changing out the AB mounts. "

 

I'm concerned about vibration in the adapters. It's not that much $$ to buy the V mounts and have them switched. Panavision NY has secured 9 Powercubes for me, so that's all I'll use on the sled.

 

"During hand-held that means a single power cube with the F23/VTR/Eyepiece is right at the limits of the battery. Anything more added to the camera exceeds the power draw that the Power Cube can handle. The battery will not last."

 

I was only going to use the PowerCubes for handheld when we are split. In 1 piece mode, I will have the dolly grip chase me with a block battery.

 

"As for flying 1 or 2 piece: I can say that most shows go 2 piece."

 

I will be 2 piece unless we need variable frame rates, then I'll have to fly the beast.

 

"but the cables (BNC or Fiber) have to be treated like gold on set"

 

I'm ordering 4 new cables tomorrow.

 

"We are trying to get the SSR to work on the F23. It is just going to take more time."

 

Panavision has taken the lead on making digital cameras workable for operators on set. We always have, and always will ask for more, but we realize the difference when a lesser camera house supports a job.

 

Thanks,

Mark

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Mark

Sounds like you have it all under control. I will post when the F23 and the SSR are compatible.

 

Thank you Charles, Eric and Ron for the warm welcome.

 

I will try to keep up with this forum and answer any questions that are Panavision related.

 

Dominick

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Panavision NY reports that you can run 100' of coax in 2 piece mode. That should be enough cable for handheld and Steadicam modes. Knowing this, I doubt production will even spend the money on Rattlers, so I'll pick my battles. Doc, thanks for the fiber contact, I'll need that sooner or later.

 

Alec, Panavision NY said the F23 power cable is exactly the same one as the Genesis, only in a different position. It comes out the back corner at a 22.5 degree angle, instead of out the side like the Genesis. Since I operate on the left side, I am still going to get the L connector at the camera body to avoid any clearance issues. It seems we have conflicting reports on the power cable. I should have looked closer at NAB.

 

Also, it turns out that the F23 will only run fixed frame rates in when split (23.98, 24, 25, 29.97, 30. 50 & 59.97). If we need to do any off speed work, I'll have to go 1 piece. With that in mind, I've ordered 9 Power Cubes, which I'll use for either 1 or 2 pc. mode on Steadicam. I need to buy V mounts to replace the AB mounts on my sled. In 2 piece handheld, I was thinking of putting a single Power Cube on the back (on the dual link box) via an Anton Bauer to V mount adapter. In 1 piece handheld, I'll just have to have the dolly grip chase me with a block battery.

 

Another F23 note, in order to do over 30fps in 4:4:4, the SRW-1 needs to have the HKSR103 board installed. They are rare, and cost more $$. You can still go over 30fps without the card, but only in 4:2:2. Because of availability, we are only getting 1, so we'll have to keep track of the off speed body, and what camera platform it's due up on next.

 

Someone remind me to take a 35mm job on the next show :rolleyes:

 

Thanks for all the input,

Mark

 

 

Mark,

 

It was good talking to you on the phone regarding the F23. Please feel free to call myself or Dominick should you have any more questions or concerns regarding your upcoming job.

 

Thanks,

Chris Konash

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I thought I'd report back after living with the F23 for 10 weeks. We were on all of the usual camera platforms, and here's how we handled them:

 

Steadicam:

- 2 piece for all fixed frame rates.

- 1 piece for all variable speed / high speed shots.

- Chris Konash @ Panavision NY made 3 pr. of very lightweight 444 jumper cables for 2 piece work. They were very easy to work with. He also made 2 F23/Genesis to PRO power cables with L connectors at camera. In 1 piece mode, the L connector came down right near my fore/aft knob on my DBIII. In hindsight, I would have 1 power cable straight & one with the L connector.

- In 2 piece mode, we ran 125' of cable to the VTR/Toaster. For part of the show, the producers brought in a tapeless workflow, and we ran up to 300' of their cable from the F23 to the drives. I had a backpack, but never ended up needing it. I'd still have a backpack in the package just in case.

- Since I had the Powercubes, I used them exclusively for all Steadicam work. I would not try to run the F23 / VTR combo without them. Panavision has bought a bunch of the Powercube batteries, & supplied them to us.

- I have an MK-V Nexus battery base, so I was easily able to switch to V mount battery plates. Now I have both V mount & Anton Bauer.

- The AB to V mount adapters wiggle quite a bit. If you are ever forced to use them, you'll need to strap them down somehow. I'd suggest going to the expense of owning both mounts. It may seem like a pain, until you end up on a difficult long lens shot, then you'll be glad you spent the money.

- 1 piece mode is very heavy & physically demanding. The DP agreed in prep to only go 1 piece when we had to because of the high speed limitations of 2 piece. I doubt I would take a Steadicam heavy show where the DP insisted on going 1 piece all the time.

- We'd often pull out the Rickshaw, western or spider dolly when it was a long tracking shot that required us to be in 1 piece. Of course there were several shots where I carried the beast, but I used other platforms more often than I normally would because of the weight.

 

Handheld:

- Again, 1 piece for high speed or ramps, & 2 piece for dialogue.

- We started with the Arri style handheld rig, but went to small Zacuto handles that mount to the rods.

- Be sure to order the standard eyepiece (not the one on the bracketry) for handheld.

- 1 piece power: dolly grip followed with Genesis block battery.

- 2 piece power: 2, IDX v mount batteries interlocked on the back of the 444 box on the back of the camera. The camera was still a bit front heavy with a prime lens, but it wasn't bad this way.

- 2 piece cabling: We used the heavier cable (not my lightweight jumpers) tied off to the handle, again running 125' to the VTR/Toaster, or 300' when we had the drives.

 

Studio mode:

- With the Optimo or in tight spaces, VTR would go on top. With Primes, I really didn't feel much difference between top or rear mounted VTR.

- With fluid heads, I would suggest ordering the new O'Connor with the heavier springs. If you put the Optimo & VTR on, there was not enough spring weight on a 25/75.

- When you max out a fluid head, the condition they are in seems more critical. We sent back 2 or 3 O'Connors through our show. I'm not sure if it was because the weight was affecting the head, or they were just bad to begin with. Either way, have the fluid heads checked out closely in prep.

- We had 4 Genesis block batteries per camera body. This is enough if all the batteries are in good shape, and your truck gets plugged in every night. If you don't buy the teamsters enough beer to get your truck powered at night, then the AC's need to take the batteries with them at night to charge, or get more.

- Tell the AC's to measure how much ND the internal rear ND filters really are. On one camera, the ND6 was 2 2/3 stops. We ended up using filters up front, because they were accurate.

 

Crane / Hot Head:

- The F23/VTR combo flies fine on a crane with the VTR on back. Just check the weight limitations of your hot head beforehand. We had an AeroHead for some effects shots, and they didn't want anything over 35lbs.

 

Rigs:

- We did quite a few rigs, and if there was room, we always had the VTR mounted to the camera. We didn't notice any vibration due to the mount on the VTR.

- We'd use the IDX WEVI transmitter for any rig shots where we were not towing the picture car. It worked for about 400' line of sight. We had the SD version, but there is an HD version out now.

 

Overall, the camera is much like the Genesis from an ergonomic standpoint. The viewfinder bracket is not quite as stable as the Genesis viewfinder, so that is a bit of a pain. I also had the mirror in the viewfinder, where the Genesis VF looks directly at the monitor, giving you a wider angle of view. Also, I found I had more eyestrain looking into an electronic viewfinder for so long a stretch. On simple coverage, I would operate off the on board monitor to give my eye a break. We had the Panasonic 8.4" on boards. I would have like to try the new Transvideo 6" HD high bright model. That would be a great on board to have in those situations where you need to operate off the monitor while outside.

 

I'll admit that there were several moments where both myself and AC's were cursing the system. It's just heavier, slower & more power hungry than a film camera. To production, we were seamless, but it took a lot more effort on camera's side to make that happen. Also, we certainly had a "digital" shooting ratio on this film. It's nice for the Director to be able to work endlessly with the actors, and I'm OK with that. What I don't like is when the AD's call roll before we are really ready to shoot. There is a cadence that normally happens that was missing on this film. Since the cameras were rolling, we would find ourselves "at the ready" for minutes sometimes before action was called. It's not good on set, and I imagine it drives the editors crazier than it does the crew.

 

With the F35 on the horizon, I expect we will be seeing more of the same. Overall, I had a great experience on this film, mainly because I was working for a very talented & very cool Director / DP combo. They more than made up for the digital issues. As they say, it's not the arrow, but the Indian.

 

Mark Karavite, SOC

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I thought I'd report back after living with the F23 for 10 weeks. We were on all of the usual camera platforms, and here's how we handled them:

 

Steadicam:

- 2 piece for all fixed frame rates.

- 1 piece for all variable speed / high speed shots.

- Chris Konash @ Panavision NY made 3 pr. of very lightweight 444 jumper cables for 2 piece work. They were very easy to work with. He also made 2 F23/Genesis to PRO power cables with L connectors at camera. In 1 piece mode, the L connector came down right near my fore/aft knob on my DBIII. In hindsight, I would have 1 power cable straight & one with the L connector.

- In 2 piece mode, we ran 125' of cable to the VTR/Toaster. For part of the show, the producers brought in a tapeless workflow, and we ran up to 300' of their cable from the F23 to the drives. I had a backpack, but never ended up needing it. I'd still have a backpack in the package just in case.

- Since I had the Powercubes, I used them exclusively for all Steadicam work. I would not try to run the F23 / VTR combo without them. Panavision has bought a bunch of the Powercube batteries, & supplied them to us.

- I have an MK-V Nexus battery base, so I was easily able to switch to V mount battery plates. Now I have both V mount & Anton Bauer.

- The AB to V mount adapters wiggle quite a bit. If you are ever forced to use them, you'll need to strap them down somehow. I'd suggest going to the expense of owning both mounts. It may seem like a pain, until you end up on a difficult long lens shot, then you'll be glad you spent the money.

- 1 piece mode is very heavy & physically demanding. The DP agreed in prep to only go 1 piece when we had to because of the high speed limitations of 2 piece. I doubt I would take a Steadicam heavy show where the DP insisted on going 1 piece all the time.

- We'd often pull out the Rickshaw, western or spider dolly when it was a long tracking shot that required us to be in 1 piece. Of course there were several shots where I carried the beast, but I used other platforms more often than I normally would because of the weight.

 

Handheld:

- Again, 1 piece for high speed or ramps, & 2 piece for dialogue.

- We started with the Arri style handheld rig, but went to small Zacuto handles that mount to the rods.

- Be sure to order the standard eyepiece (not the one on the bracketry) for handheld.

- 1 piece power: dolly grip followed with Genesis block battery.

- 2 piece power: 2, IDX v mount batteries interlocked on the back of the 444 box on the back of the camera. The camera was still a bit front heavy with a prime lens, but it wasn't bad this way.

- 2 piece cabling: We used the heavier cable (not my lightweight jumpers) tied off to the handle, again running 125' to the VTR/Toaster, or 300' when we had the drives.

 

Studio mode:

- With the Optimo or in tight spaces, VTR would go on top. With Primes, I really didn't feel much difference between top or rear mounted VTR.

- With fluid heads, I would suggest ordering the new O'Connor with the heavier springs. If you put the Optimo & VTR on, there was not enough spring weight on a 25/75.

- When you max out a fluid head, the condition they are in seems more critical. We sent back 2 or 3 O'Connors through our show. I'm not sure if it was because the weight was affecting the head, or they were just bad to begin with. Either way, have the fluid heads checked out closely in prep.

- We had 4 Genesis block batteries per camera body. This is enough if all the batteries are in good shape, and your truck gets plugged in every night. If you don't buy the teamsters enough beer to get your truck powered at night, then the AC's need to take the batteries with them at night to charge, or get more.

- Tell the AC's to measure how much ND the internal rear ND filters really are. On one camera, the ND6 was 2 2/3 stops. We ended up using filters up front, because they were accurate.

 

Crane / Hot Head:

- The F23/VTR combo flies fine on a crane with the VTR on back. Just check the weight limitations of your hot head beforehand. We had an AeroHead for some effects shots, and they didn't want anything over 35lbs.

 

Rigs:

- We did quite a few rigs, and if there was room, we always had the VTR mounted to the camera. We didn't notice any vibration due to the mount on the VTR.

- We'd use the IDX WEVI transmitter for any rig shots where we were not towing the picture car. It worked for about 400' line of sight. We had the SD version, but there is an HD version out now.

 

Overall, the camera is much like the Genesis from an ergonomic standpoint. The viewfinder bracket is not quite as stable as the Genesis viewfinder, so that is a bit of a pain. I also had the mirror in the viewfinder, where the Genesis VF looks directly at the monitor, giving you a wider angle of view. Also, I found I had more eyestrain looking into an electronic viewfinder for so long a stretch. On simple coverage, I would operate off the on board monitor to give my eye a break. We had the Panasonic 8.4" on boards. I would have like to try the new Transvideo 6" HD high bright model. That would be a great on board to have in those situations where you need to operate off the monitor while outside.

 

I'll admit that there were several moments where both myself and AC's were cursing the system. It's just heavier, slower & more power hungry than a film camera. To production, we were seamless, but it took a lot more effort on camera's side to make that happen. Also, we certainly had a "digital" shooting ratio on this film. It's nice for the Director to be able to work endlessly with the actors, and I'm OK with that. What I don't like is when the AD's call roll before we are really ready to shoot. There is a cadence that normally happens that was missing on this film. Since the cameras were rolling, we would find ourselves "at the ready" for minutes sometimes before action was called. It's not good on set, and I imagine it drives the editors crazier than it does the crew.

 

With the F35 on the horizon, I expect we will be seeing more of the same. Overall, I had a great experience on this film, mainly because I was working for a very talented & very cool Director / DP combo. They more than made up for the digital issues. As they say, it's not the arrow, but the Indian.

 

Mark Karavite, SOC

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Continued from a separate thread --

 

Eric brings up an important point about the draw of these HD cameras. If your post does not have the proper gauge cable for power, then you risk the chance of burning up your post cable. The reason for a Y power cable, in addition to drawing from 2 batteries, is that the PRO lemos are rated at 7 amps, and the camera with a SRW-1 recorder will draw around 11 amps while running.

 

If you have a PRO, then the Y cable pulls from both the camera power and the aux power, therefore tapping 2 batteries. My rig has a PRO topstage, XCS post & MK-V Nexus battery base. Unfortunately, the Nexus base doesn't feed the aux power on my PRO topstage (even though Howard assured me the Nexus was completely PRO compatible, but that's another story), so my F23/F35?Genesis power cables Y into 2 camera power outputs from my PRO topstage. The Nexus base draws equally from all 3 batteries, so I did get good run times with 3 Powercubes on board.

 

Some other stuff you'll need:

 

1) Have the rental house provide batteries for you. Why kill thousands of dollars of your own batteries. I did a F23 feature last year that used The Camera House, and they ended up buying 8 Powercubes for our shoot. See if they still have them. Dionic HC's are a better choice for a PRO base, since it's harder to get a V mount. I don't like using the adapters, as they rattle.

 

2) Acquire at least 2 sets of lightweight 4:4:4 jumper cables. You will most likely want to run the camera split whenever you can. When we worked with The Camera House gear, they were completely tape free, so no SRW-1 recorder. That solves a lot of power and weight problems for Steadicam, but makes running out and shooting a 2nd unit establishing shot a pain. Also, see if you can get the OB-1 for Steadicam. You'll love it. Get 2 OB-1's, and you can cover Steadicam and 2nd unit at the same time.

 

3) Check which viewfinders they have with their cameras. The newest Sony viewfinders are OK. The previous version (the one with the flip out LCD option) are horrible. The Camera House didn't have any viewfinder extension brackets, as of summer 2009, so check on that as well.

 

We will be using F23's out of Clairmont Camera.

 

I definitely agree with you about using rental batteries versus your own. I know Dionic HC's are a great choice, but how about Dionic 90's?

 

Also, as far as the jumper cables go, I'll be looking into those. The budget is tight and production has already laughed off the idea of using a $600/day fiber system. So looks like steadi will be either 1 piece mode with the deck or 2 piece mode with the tri-cable and a grip shadowing me with a backpack. Besides the fiber system this is what Clairmont currently has to offer. I'm prepping in a week and might have some more info then. Are there any other new solutions out there I might not be aware of?

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