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Continued from a separate thread --

 

Eric brings up an important point about the draw of these HD cameras. If your post does not have the proper gauge cable for power, then you risk the chance of burning up your post cable. The reason for a Y power cable, in addition to drawing from 2 batteries, is that the PRO lemos are rated at 7 amps, and the camera with a SRW-1 recorder will draw around 11 amps while running.

 

If you have a PRO, then the Y cable pulls from both the camera power and the aux power, therefore tapping 2 batteries. My rig has a PRO topstage, XCS post & MK-V Nexus battery base. Unfortunately, the Nexus base doesn't feed the aux power on my PRO topstage (even though Howard assured me the Nexus was completely PRO compatible, but that's another story), so my F23/F35?Genesis power cables Y into 2 camera power outputs from my PRO topstage. The Nexus base draws equally from all 3 batteries, so I did get good run times with 3 Powercubes on board.

 

Some other stuff you'll need:

 

1) Have the rental house provide batteries for you. Why kill thousands of dollars of your own batteries. I did a F23 feature last year that used The Camera House, and they ended up buying 8 Powercubes for our shoot. See if they still have them. Dionic HC's are a better choice for a PRO base, since it's harder to get a V mount. I don't like using the adapters, as they rattle.

 

2) Acquire at least 2 sets of lightweight 4:4:4 jumper cables. You will most likely want to run the camera split whenever you can. When we worked with The Camera House gear, they were completely tape free, so no SRW-1 recorder. That solves a lot of power and weight problems for Steadicam, but makes running out and shooting a 2nd unit establishing shot a pain. Also, see if you can get the OB-1 for Steadicam. You'll love it. Get 2 OB-1's, and you can cover Steadicam and 2nd unit at the same time.

 

3) Check which viewfinders they have with their cameras. The newest Sony viewfinders are OK. The previous version (the one with the flip out LCD option) are horrible. The Camera House didn't have any viewfinder extension brackets, as of summer 2009, so check on that as well.

 

We will be using F23's out of Clairmont Camera.

 

I definitely agree with you about using rental batteries versus your own. I know Dionic HC's are a great choice, but how about Dionic 90's?

 

Also, as far as the jumper cables go, I'll be looking into those. The budget is tight and production has already laughed off the idea of using a $600/day fiber system. So looks like steadi will be either 1 piece mode with the deck or 2 piece mode with the tri-cable and a grip shadowing me with a backpack. Besides the fiber system this is what Clairmont currently has to offer. I'm prepping in a week and might have some more info then. Are there any other new solutions out there I might not be aware of?

 

Just as a heads up, you're unlikely to get those batteries from Clairmont. They don't carry any AB batteries in their inventory, and while they might be willing to purchase some for a feature or TV series, not likely they'd get Li-Ion. It never hurts to ask, and you definitely should, but start the ball rolling now and be ready for an alternative solution.

 

Clairmont does provide the lightweight dual BNCs for Steadi usage, but you should check ahead of time too cause those are often on a show by show basis and they may be out of stock. If they happen to be low on a particular part it may take a few days for it to arrive before they can put them together.

 

They have a couple custom EVF options, most everybody really likes at least one of them.

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Continued from a separate thread --

 

We will be using F23's out of Clairmont Camera.

 

I definitely agree with you about using rental batteries versus your own. I know Dionic HC's are a great choice, but how about Dionic 90's?

 

Also, as far as the jumper cables go, I'll be looking into those. The budget is tight and production has already laughed off the idea of using a $600/day fiber system. So looks like steadi will be either 1 piece mode with the deck or 2 piece mode with the tri-cable and a grip shadowing me with a backpack. Besides the fiber system this is what Clairmont currently has to offer. I'm prepping in a week and might have some more info then. Are there any other new solutions out there I might not be aware of?

 

 

You can use Dionic 90's BUT you're only going to get 20 to 25mins run time out of them IF they don't shut down from being over currented. Especially if you are still running the MK-V center post cable. you need to use Hytron 140-160's with less than 75 cycles on them. If you end up going one piece mode and flying the toaster then there is no way you can use dionics.

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Just as a heads up, you're unlikely to get those batteries from Clairmont. They don't carry any AB batteries in their inventory, and while they might be willing to purchase some for a feature or TV series, not likely they'd get Li-Ion. It never hurts to ask, and you definitely should, but start the ball rolling now and be ready for an alternative solution.

 

Clairmont does provide the lightweight dual BNCs for Steadi usage, but you should check ahead of time too cause those are often on a show by show basis and they may be out of stock. If they happen to be low on a particular part it may take a few days for it to arrive before they can put them together.

 

They have a couple custom EVF options, most everybody really likes at least one of them.

 

Thanks for the heads up Brian. I'll check in with you at Clairmont.

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Continued from a separate thread --

 

We will be using F23's out of Clairmont Camera.

 

I definitely agree with you about using rental batteries versus your own. I know Dionic HC's are a great choice, but how about Dionic 90's?

 

Also, as far as the jumper cables go, I'll be looking into those. The budget is tight and production has already laughed off the idea of using a $600/day fiber system. So looks like steadi will be either 1 piece mode with the deck or 2 piece mode with the tri-cable and a grip shadowing me with a backpack. Besides the fiber system this is what Clairmont currently has to offer. I'm prepping in a week and might have some more info then. Are there any other new solutions out there I might not be aware of?

 

 

You can use Dionic 90's BUT you're only going to get 20 to 25mins run time out of them IF they don't shut down from being over currented. Especially if you are still running the MK-V center post cable. you need to use Hytron 140-160's with less than 75 cycles on them. If you end up going one piece mode and flying the toaster then there is no way you can use dionics.

 

Thanks Eric. So looks like Dionic HC's and/or Hytron 140/160's are the best power options. Even with my heavier gauge post cable, do you think you'll get alot more battery life by running power from the p-taps direct to the camera (bypassing the post) via an external 12 gauge dual cable? It's a very minor inconvenience. Could you then use Dionic 90's in 1 piece mode?

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Continued from a separate thread --

 

We will be using F23's out of Clairmont Camera.

 

I definitely agree with you about using rental batteries versus your own. I know Dionic HC's are a great choice, but how about Dionic 90's?

 

Also, as far as the jumper cables go, I'll be looking into those. The budget is tight and production has already laughed off the idea of using a $600/day fiber system. So looks like steadi will be either 1 piece mode with the deck or 2 piece mode with the tri-cable and a grip shadowing me with a backpack. Besides the fiber system this is what Clairmont currently has to offer. I'm prepping in a week and might have some more info then. Are there any other new solutions out there I might not be aware of?

 

 

You can use Dionic 90's BUT you're only going to get 20 to 25mins run time out of them IF they don't shut down from being over currented. Especially if you are still running the MK-V center post cable. you need to use Hytron 140-160's with less than 75 cycles on them. If you end up going one piece mode and flying the toaster then there is no way you can use dionics.

 

Thanks Eric. So looks like Dionic HC's and/or Hytron 140/160's are the best power options. Even with my heavier gauge post cable, do you think you'll get alot more battery life by running power from the p-taps direct to the camera (bypassing the post) via an external 12 gauge dual cable? It's a very minor inconvenience. Could you then use Dionic 90's in 1 piece mode?

 

IF you have a 14 gauge post cable (XCS Ultimate or U2) 12gauge will not provide any measurable difference if you are using a 16 AWG or 18AWG post cable 12AWG will help, if you are using a 20 or 22AWG cable then it's a must.

 

The bigger problem you have is the small power connectors you have in the j-Box and the centerpost. the 1b.308 that is the center post connector is only rated to 5amps. so even with the larger gauge centerpost cable you are still only good for 5 amps because of that connector. The 1s.302/303 connectors (camera power) are rated for 8amps and the camera power cable is wired with 20awg wire....

 

See where I'm going, just because you have increased the gauge at some point in the system it's limited by the sum of the other parts.

 

As for running in one piece with a Dionic 90? not going to happen the Dionic 90 has a 10amp protection board in it, and while Sony makes the claim that in one piece the F23/SRW1 "only" pulls 135 watts that's NOT during startup of the deck. Add in the voltage drop due to wiring and connectors and you're looking at more than 10amps after the powerup.

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Just as a heads up, you're unlikely to get those batteries from Clairmont. They don't carry any AB batteries in their inventory, and while they might be willing to purchase some for a feature or TV series, not likely they'd get Li-Ion. It never hurts to ask, and you definitely should, but start the ball rolling now and be ready for an alternative solution.

 

Clairmont does provide the lightweight dual BNCs for Steadi usage, but you should check ahead of time too cause those are often on a show by show basis and they may be out of stock. If they happen to be low on a particular part it may take a few days for it to arrive before they can put them together.

 

They have a couple custom EVF options, most everybody really likes at least one of them.

 

Thanks for the heads up Brian. I'll check in with you at Clairmont.

 

Oops, I left a part of that post un-typed:

 

Unfortunately, I'm not at Clairmont anymore, otherwise I'd personally make sure you were taken care of!

 

But as you know, they be good peeps, they'll help you out some way or another. |-)~

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Continued from a separate thread --

 

We will be using F23's out of Clairmont Camera.

 

I definitely agree with you about using rental batteries versus your own. I know Dionic HC's are a great choice, but how about Dionic 90's?

 

Also, as far as the jumper cables go, I'll be looking into those. The budget is tight and production has already laughed off the idea of using a $600/day fiber system. So looks like steadi will be either 1 piece mode with the deck or 2 piece mode with the tri-cable and a grip shadowing me with a backpack. Besides the fiber system this is what Clairmont currently has to offer. I'm prepping in a week and might have some more info then. Are there any other new solutions out there I might not be aware of?

 

 

You can use Dionic 90's BUT you're only going to get 20 to 25mins run time out of them IF they don't shut down from being over currented. Especially if you are still running the MK-V center post cable. you need to use Hytron 140-160's with less than 75 cycles on them. If you end up going one piece mode and flying the toaster then there is no way you can use dionics.

 

Thanks Eric. So looks like Dionic HC's and/or Hytron 140/160's are the best power options. Even with my heavier gauge post cable, do you think you'll get alot more battery life by running power from the p-taps direct to the camera (bypassing the post) via an external 12 gauge dual cable? It's a very minor inconvenience. Could you then use Dionic 90's in 1 piece mode?

 

IF you have a 14 gauge post cable (XCS Ultimate or U2) 12gauge will not provide any measurable difference if you are using a 16 AWG or 18AWG post cable 12AWG will help, if you are using a 20 or 22AWG cable then it's a must.

 

The bigger problem you have is the small power connectors you have in the j-Box and the centerpost. the 1b.308 that is the center post connector is only rated to 5amps. so even with the larger gauge centerpost cable you are still only good for 5 amps because of that connector. The 1s.302/303 connectors (camera power) are rated for 8amps and the camera power cable is wired with 20awg wire....

 

See where I'm going, just because you have increased the gauge at some point in the system it's limited by the sum of the other parts.

 

As for running in one piece with a Dionic 90? not going to happen the Dionic 90 has a 10amp protection board in it, and while Sony makes the claim that in one piece the F23/SRW1 "only" pulls 135 watts that's NOT during startup of the deck. Add in the voltage drop due to wiring and connectors and you're looking at more than 10amps after the powerup.

 

A few corrections,

 

The stock MK-V j-box centerpost connection uses the 2B.307, which is rated for 11 amps per pin, the stock PRO centerpost connector uses the 3B.308 which is rated for 13 amps per pin. Unfortunately the stock MK-V j-box doesn't give you the option of splitting the power between two power runs and you will run into problems. However you can easily change out the 2B.307 for a 2B.308, which can handle 10 amps per pin, to give you the AUX battery feed and at 10 amps per pin you are good to go with a Y-cable to share the power feed to the camera.

 

The 1S.302 is rated for 15amps per pin and the 1S.303 is rated for 10amps per pin.

 

The connectors do not limit you but the stock 22AWG wire definitely does, especially with the length of the total run!! If you upgrade your centerpost cable and if you are using the Y-cable and have two separate power sources to couple then you can safely provide up to 20 amps. I've used this setup to fly the F35 and the Genesis, both in one piece mode, with no problems.

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Continued from a separate thread --

 

We will be using F23's out of Clairmont Camera.

 

I definitely agree with you about using rental batteries versus your own. I know Dionic HC's are a great choice, but how about Dionic 90's?

 

Also, as far as the jumper cables go, I'll be looking into those. The budget is tight and production has already laughed off the idea of using a $600/day fiber system. So looks like steadi will be either 1 piece mode with the deck or 2 piece mode with the tri-cable and a grip shadowing me with a backpack. Besides the fiber system this is what Clairmont currently has to offer. I'm prepping in a week and might have some more info then. Are there any other new solutions out there I might not be aware of?

 

 

You can use Dionic 90's BUT you're only going to get 20 to 25mins run time out of them IF they don't shut down from being over currented. Especially if you are still running the MK-V center post cable. you need to use Hytron 140-160's with less than 75 cycles on them. If you end up going one piece mode and flying the toaster then there is no way you can use dionics.

 

Thanks Eric. So looks like Dionic HC's and/or Hytron 140/160's are the best power options. Even with my heavier gauge post cable, do you think you'll get alot more battery life by running power from the p-taps direct to the camera (bypassing the post) via an external 12 gauge dual cable? It's a very minor inconvenience. Could you then use Dionic 90's in 1 piece mode?

 

IF you have a 14 gauge post cable (XCS Ultimate or U2) 12gauge will not provide any measurable difference if you are using a 16 AWG or 18AWG post cable 12AWG will help, if you are using a 20 or 22AWG cable then it's a must.

 

The bigger problem you have is the small power connectors you have in the j-Box and the centerpost. the 1b.308 that is the center post connector is only rated to 5amps. so even with the larger gauge centerpost cable you are still only good for 5 amps because of that connector. The 1s.302/303 connectors (camera power) are rated for 8amps and the camera power cable is wired with 20awg wire....

 

See where I'm going, just because you have increased the gauge at some point in the system it's limited by the sum of the other parts.

 

As for running in one piece with a Dionic 90? not going to happen the Dionic 90 has a 10amp protection board in it, and while Sony makes the claim that in one piece the F23/SRW1 "only" pulls 135 watts that's NOT during startup of the deck. Add in the voltage drop due to wiring and connectors and you're looking at more than 10amps after the powerup.

 

A few corrections,

 

The stock MK-V j-box centerpost connection uses the 2B.307, which is rated for 11 amps per pin, the stock PRO centerpost connector uses the 3B.308 which is rated for 13 amps per pin. Unfortunately the stock MK-V j-box doesn't give you the option of splitting the power between two power runs and you will run into problems. However you can easily change out the 2B.307 for a 2B.308, which can handle 10 amps per pin, to give you the AUX battery feed and at 10 amps per pin you are good to go with a Y-cable to share the power feed to the camera.

 

The 1S.302 is rated for 15amps per pin and the 1S.303 is rated for 10amps per pin.

 

The connectors do not limit you but the stock 22AWG wire definitely does, especially with the length of the total run!! If you upgrade your centerpost cable and if you are using the Y-cable and have two separate power sources to couple then you can safely provide up to 20 amps. I've used this setup to fly the F35 and the Genesis, both in one piece mode, with no problems.

 

You can not "Safely" Provide 20 amps on a pro or MK-V. also the numbers that you are quoting for the lemo's are not continuous power just max transient, Continuous power is 75% of max rating.

 

If the 2 series plugs can provide the amps needed then why do Tiffen and XCS use them along with Panavision?

 

Refer back to this discussion we had Here

 

Also use this rather informative Voltage drop calculator The results will horrify you

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You can not "Safely" Provide 20 amps on a pro or MK-V. also the numbers that you are quoting for the lemo's are not continuous power just max transient, Continuous power is 75% of max rating.

 

 

I'm not sure where you come up with the 75% rule as the definition of Rated Current is the CONTINUOUS current that equipment is capable of passing without exceeding its temperature rise limits. LEMO plugs will hold their current value until 175 degrees Celsius, then drop off quickly.

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"We will be using F23's out of Clairmont Camera.

 

I definitely agree with you about using rental batteries versus your own. I know Dionic HC's are a great choice, but how about Dionic 90's?

 

Also, as far as the jumper cables go, I'll be looking into those. The budget is tight and production has already laughed off the idea of using a $600/day fiber system. So looks like steadi will be either 1 piece mode with the deck or 2 piece mode with the tri-cable and a grip shadowing me with a backpack. Besides the fiber system this is what Clairmont currently has to offer. I'm prepping in a week and might have some more info then. Are there any other new solutions out there I might not be aware of?"

 

Hey Nick,

 

I haven't used the Dionic 90's with these cameras, only Powercubes or Dionic HC's. My gut feeling is that Dionics would be OK for 2 piece mode, but not in 1 piece mode. The Dionic 90's may not even run the F23/SRW-1 combo. Even if it does, your run times would not be very good.

 

I'd go with at least 2, preferably 3 pairs of 4:4:4 lightweight jumpers. Here's some notes on jumper cables:

 

1) Call me if you need the cable style that's most flexible. 248-705-4500.

2) Have them make one end male & one end female. This doesn't require a barrel adapter between the jumper & main cable.

3) Try to avoid the backpack & go with a longer cable direct to video village. It becomes a major pain to have a grip shadowing anywhere near you. The backpack actually adds 2 bodies to the "conga line", because the backpack guy usually needs a cable puller as well. Between yourself, your spotter / cable puller, focus puller, boom op, it's crowded enough already.

4) Work with your DIT in prep to test cable lengths he is comfortable running from camera to VTR. I have successfully gone 300' with heavy gauge BNC cable. A 150' run should cover most situations. On the last F23 show, we carried a backpack, but never had to use it.

5) It's worth a discussion in Pre Pro with your DP about when you'll be 1 piece or 2 piece. Especially if there is a lot of Steadicam, you'll want to be 2 piece most of the time to save yourself. Most DP's are cool about this, because it allows you to do your best work for him. Add the bonus of him having HD monitoring hardwired all the time.

6) When you do go 1 piece (I only switch to 1 piece for off speed work), how will the camera be monitored? Either a hardwire jumper or IDX HD Wevi are the 2 main options I've used. In addition to your 4:4:4 jumpers, have 2 lightweight single BNC jumpers made for 1 piece monitoring.

 

Again, feel free to call me directly if you have any further questions or want to chat.

 

Best regards,

Mark

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"We will be using F23's out of Clairmont Camera.

 

I definitely agree with you about using rental batteries versus your own. I know Dionic HC's are a great choice, but how about Dionic 90's?

 

Also, as far as the jumper cables go, I'll be looking into those. The budget is tight and production has already laughed off the idea of using a $600/day fiber system. So looks like steadi will be either 1 piece mode with the deck or 2 piece mode with the tri-cable and a grip shadowing me with a backpack. Besides the fiber system this is what Clairmont currently has to offer. I'm prepping in a week and might have some more info then. Are there any other new solutions out there I might not be aware of?"

 

Hey Nick,

 

I haven't used the Dionic 90's with these cameras, only Powercubes or Dionic HC's. My gut feeling is that Dionics would be OK for 2 piece mode, but not in 1 piece mode. The Dionic 90's may not even run the F23/SRW-1 combo. Even if it does, your run times would not be very good.

 

I'd go with at least 2, preferably 3 pairs of 4:4:4 lightweight jumpers. Here's some notes on jumper cables:

 

1) Call me if you need the cable style that's most flexible. 248-705-4500.

2) Have them make one end male & one end female. This doesn't require a barrel adapter between the jumper & main cable.

3) Try to avoid the backpack & go with a longer cable direct to video village. It becomes a major pain to have a grip shadowing anywhere near you. The backpack actually adds 2 bodies to the "conga line", because the backpack guy usually needs a cable puller as well. Between yourself, your spotter / cable puller, focus puller, boom op, it's crowded enough already.

4) Work with your DIT in prep to test cable lengths he is comfortable running from camera to VTR. I have successfully gone 300' with heavy gauge BNC cable. A 150' run should cover most situations. On the last F23 show, we carried a backpack, but never had to use it.

5) It's worth a discussion in Pre Pro with your DP about when you'll be 1 piece or 2 piece. Especially if there is a lot of Steadicam, you'll want to be 2 piece most of the time to save yourself. Most DP's are cool about this, because it allows you to do your best work for him. Add the bonus of him having HD monitoring hardwired all the time.

6) When you do go 1 piece (I only switch to 1 piece for off speed work), how will the camera be monitored? Either a hardwire jumper or IDX HD Wevi are the 2 main options I've used. In addition to your 4:4:4 jumpers, have 2 lightweight single BNC jumpers made for 1 piece monitoring.

 

Again, feel free to call me directly if you have any further questions or want to chat.

 

Best regards,

Mark

 

Thanks for the help Mark. I'll see how everything comes together at prep and if I have some questions I'll definitely give you a ring.

 

~ Nick

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