For Newbies - Read!!!!

[Stephen Press]

To me this is a lot about respect. Most here ponyed up a lot of cash, spent a lot of time and have used their body hard to get to where they are now. Their experience and knowledge is worth respect.

People wanting reassurance that their $14 Steadicam is every bit as good as what we use should be looking elsewhere.

Less clear is those of us flying alternative brands. I did the course, used a real Steadicam but because of the market I’m in ended up buying an Actioncam.

I’ve had it for over 10 years, it’s never let me down and I’ve never regretted buying it even though I know not having the Steadicam brand on it has cost me some work and put me more into the low budget/indi camp.

So while I haven’t paid as much as some for my rig, I have spent a lot of time and used my body hard and have learnt a few things I don’t mind shearing…

I guess what I’m saying is while there are a lot of dumb questions there are no stupid ones, so as long as everyone thinks before they post and respects the valuable time of the film giants that swim here a good time can be had by all no matter the size of their gimbal.

[Erwin Landau]

I don't quite see why we have to explain our selfs here.

 

But anyhow...

 

We are professional Camera and Steadicam Operators and this is our forum where we can get together and chat, exchange stories and share our knowledge and experience, tell stupid stories or share sad news, laugh and cry and everything around it. Do to the fact that we rarely see each other outside of work and never during work, that used to be and is still the best way to stay in touch and read about what are people up to. It used to be a small community where everybody knew everybody by first name, at least screen nick name.

 

We chose the profession of being a camera operator. That's what we do for a living that is our profession, not a hobby or a weekend thing or something to do when we are bored... Having spend in excess of $100K each and very commonly multiples of that amount

 

This Forum started way back in the early 1990-ies under the AOL Folder banner as personal computers got more mainstream and replaced the Newsletters that started in '88. Even Garrett joined AOL back in 1994 and he was always very eager to answer questions. Even back then anything less than the top dogs like the Model 1, 2, 3 or 3A was frond a pone. The EFP was looked at as a cheap way in, even though it was a Steadicam brand made by CP. Oh I love the story of the SK what was the origin? "Sachtler Killer"... Beating Sachtlers first attempt to move in on the low end stabilizer market... in the 90-ies...

 

Everybody was quick to for see the quick demise of the PRO that was introduced in 1993... while holding up the banner for the Model 4... that was by NAB 1994 still a wooden model. Everybody was quick to call the PRO a clone... GPI and PRO came to life on the heels of being almost kicked out of CP after they offered the improvements to "the power that where" at that time at Cinema Products and dismissed the requests and needs of owners everywhere. The PRO was a huge improvement after a 13 year development freeze at CP... Glidecam on the other hand was and is just a blaitend knock off company that after being in business for now 15 years still can't get the physics right... Washers? Really?

 

It is said that only owning a Steadicam made by the inventors and original patent holders, Cinema Products and now the Tiffen Company makes you a Steadicam Operator. Yeah buy a JR or a Merlin and you are a Steadicam Operator... but you are far from being a professional Camera Operator.

 

These days a professional set up is a piece of equipment that will handle any and every camera ever used starting with Video and going up to 16mm, 35mm, 65mm, IMAX, and any HD monster...

 

A 12 Volt video rig with return monitor, tally, gimbal based FIZ, Teleprompter, on board light, Microwave transmitter, etc is as much a profssional setup as the latest and greatest 24 Volt Film unit and as expensive... sometimes even more.

 

Again professional equipment, with which we put food on the table and make our car payments. Self made is okay... most of my equipment is based on my Ideas... but it doesn't look like it's made in my back yard... professional, get it?

 

 

I don't know much about Star Wars Memorabilia or Internet Porn... but that is one of the reasons, maybe exempt the obvious ones, that I don't post on there websites... But I know a little bit about Steadicam and that's why I keep posting here.

 

I learned from the man himself. Share your knowledge and I think I am, based on the couple of posts that I contributed in this Steadicam Forum and the last and as far back as the AOL folders... But back then, more as a quiet bystander then real contributer... I'm sure you can find a couple of stupid questions way back then, by me, that got shut down, but imagine all the guys that are doing it since day one... that amounts to a shit load of repetitive questions...

 

As a professional you are expected to show up with a certain basic amount of knowledge... That's what makes you, after all, a professional.

 

 

 

Okay enough... I'm about to put myself to sleep...

 

 

Fly safe!

[Janice Arthur]

Guys;

 

I agree with what has been said but this is the internet! By its very nature you are going to get everyone to ask everything I don't care how many times you say read the archives.

 

That being said, either ignor the newbies file or make yourself crazy or answer them.

 

What I can say as a partial solution is.

 

We ask, "Have you read Jerry and Laurie's book?" to those posters first.

 

Then we say refer to page 12 (or like page).

 

Then get back to us.

 

Of course anyone who wants to can obviously assist them before that, its the internet; everyone gets Google speed answers to every question.

 

JA

[Janice Arthur]

Guys;

 

We also want these guys around and to be our friends because who else is going to buy our

used stuff when they move up in gear quality? (They did what we did, they bought what they could/can afford, there's just more good and bad out there now.)

 

They really are reading and learning on those other posts we make too.

 

(Consider this . . . don't alienate your kingmakers.)

 

JA

[John Brook]

As a newbie and not a professional (Which has been pointed out to me several times by the pros.) I would just like to thank Janice. I can't speak for all the newbies but I think she "gets" us. I know I look at forum as a way to learn about the profession I am interested in. Also, I think site is here so I don't make many mistakes that the pros have learned. I am willing to bet you share those experiences so others don't go through the same thing.

 

It is one thing to be a professional and tell us newbie's to look hard and use the search feature. I am sorry that all I can afford is a small one to two thousand dollar rig. I am sorry that I have to practice on the weekends for little to no pay. I am not making a living off of this system yet. I am trying. I do have one question for all you professionals out there. How did you guys start out? Did every pro on this board drop 100K and instantly have a list of clients ready so they could start off making a living being a steadicam operator?

 

This is the only way I know how to get started doing something in life: start at the bottom and work my way up. I know that we as newbies may make some mistakes and that could make the guys who have been doing this for ages upset. Again sorry. I hope to be a professional in the future, but if I am going to turn into someone who points out others wrongs instead of trying to help that person, maybe I should just rethink my line of work.

 

I can't thank the professionals on this board enough for all the information and time they spend on my questions. I just hope that in the future I can continue to come to the board for answers instead of insults.

[Eric Fletcher S.O.C.]

I can't thank the professionals on this board enough for all the information and time they spend on my questions. I just hope that in the future I can continue to come to the board for answers instead of insults.

 

 

I'm not sure where the insults are. You were told, before you ask the question search the archive it's probably there. if it's not ask the question. What's the issue?

[John Brook]

Where are the insults? It's insulting to come to a place that should be receptive to the up-and-comer and instead be reminded of how much of a newbie I am. It's insulting when this site, which is suppose to be an awesome resource for steadicam operators, has more people spending time telling a newbie to go "search the archives" then just answering the question. It's insulting to see a page entitled "For Newbies-Read" and the page proceeds to point out every little thing we have done wrong when we try to join this site. I get it. We make mistakes. Maybe the problem doesn't lay with us. If you are noticing that every newbie isn't using the search feature then maybe it is time to revamp that feature. Make it bigger and at the top of the page. Make it more user friendly. I know that I don't come on here to make anyone's life harder. I am trying to better myself by learning from the best. There is a reason you guys are the ones making a living off of this system and I am just doing on the weekend when I can. There is a vast amount of knowledge here and I love the fact that I can tap into it.

 

That is what is insulting to me. I am sure some of you pros can remember what it was like starting out. Trying to get answers to questions you had. Talking to an operator who didn't mind answering those questions (No matter how many times they were asked the same question). What if every time you asked something somebody said "Go look it up." Would you be discouraged at all? I am just a newbie, as I am told often, but I hope someday to be a pro and help contribute. I hope that someday I'll be able to talk to an up-and-comer and tell him about my experiences in this business. Again I can't say enough about this site and what it means to me now. I just hope it can stay that way.

[Eric Fletcher S.O.C.]

It's insulting when this site, which is suppose to be an awesome resource for steadicam operators, has more people spending time telling a newbie to go "search the archives" then just answering the question. It's insulting to see a page entitled "For Newbies-Read" and the page proceeds to point out every little thing we have done wrong when we try to join this site.

 

 

Hang on a second. IF you actually tried to search you would in most case's find an answer, but you'd also find a wealth of info that applies to the original question that wouldn't be answered with a direct response.

 

As for the "Insulting page" you might notice that a fellow board member posted it and the mods have made only 9 of the 38 post's in this thread, all to clarify...

 

Honestly I find your post insulting, I've been involved with steadicam since 1980, I've pretty much flown one of everything built, owned more rigs and kits than I care to remember, spending WAY too much money on the gear all the while spending years to perfect my craft, and you find it too troublesome to search the archives? I guess you just want the big gigs handed to you to...

[Lars Erik]

Dear John,

 

I’ve been a Steadicam operator for almost 5 years now. So I don’t consider myself to be a total newbie, nor a seasoned operator. I’m somewhere in that unknown land between those two I guess.

 

I own gear for over $120K, so I’ve spent a reasonable amount of cash. More money will be spent. I completely understand that you find it frustrating at keep getting “search the archives” answer”, but there’s a reason for it.

 

1) You should put an effort in it to finding your own answers. Most of the questions asked have been answered already by some

very, very good operators. Becoming an operator is a lot about dedication and being independent.

 

2) If we ask the same operators to answer the same question time and time again, they get a bit fed up about that. They have lives

outside this forum and the movie/tv business.

 

3) Let’s say someone answered the question “post length” every time a new guy asked it. Then searching the archives would become

more frustrating and tiresome, because of all the different topics who basically answers the same question.

 

 

For your question of how to become an operator (in my humble experience);

 

Become a regular camera operator first. You’ll learn about framing and movement here, and also pick up a lot of things from the directors/DP’s/other cameramen you work with. Steadicam in my opinion, is one of the hardest trades of this industry. Personally it’s the most difficult task I’ve ever done.

Work as much as you can. Build a client list. After working as a camera operator for 6 years I took a workshop. Take more workshops. ( I’ll be attending my third in August.)

Save money. Buy a decent rig for the market you’ll be working in. The chances of landing big jobs the first 3-5 years is slim. So buying a used Master/EFP is fine. If lucky, you can get one for around $10K.

Then tell EVERYONE (I mean really every living soul you've met in the business) that you’ve bought a Steadicam. It’s all about selling yourself. Now I am able to work on big jobs, both TV and movies. This way of doing it may not work for everyone, but it worked for me.

 

 

In regard to “cheap” rigs; the reason for many of the seasoned ops not answering those questions is because they are very dedicated people. They have little or no interest in those rigs. I totally understand this. There are other more suitable web sites for those questions. Mainly; www.hbs.com, www.steadiforum.com (steadiforum has big rigs+low end rigs)

 

And please be more humble. Don’t expect to get answers otherwise. People like Eric and Erwin and their like have been doing this for many years, with a lot of $ investment and not at least invested their own time to be where they are now. Sure I don’t agree with everything being said from all experienced ops, but there’s a way to go about that. I think your last post isn’t very well thought through. Sorry.

 

 

Tip of the day:

Search the archives, didn’t find what you’re looking for? Tell us and we can help to either find what you’re looking for in the archives (make a link) or answer the question if it isn’t in the archives. Remember that a $2k rig has no comparison to a $25-65k rig. Be humble and learn, and read Jerry’s book (great fun). Take a workshop (even more fun). Come back for new questions. Search the archives and so forth. Happy hunting!

 

 

LE

[Danny O'Neill]

In terms of steadicam I am a total noob and will never work on feature films (im a wedding videographer, I can hear you spit at my feet in disgust already ;) ). Im very much here to read and digest, if somone asks a question I may respond with my own experience in the hope it may help them someway. While I would love to become a professional Op there are already a lot of fine ops out there, why do I need to do that? Now wedding videos are a different subject, theres a lot of crap, especially in the UK and I feel I can improve that though my Steadicam and Glidetrack... I digress.

 

For all those wanting to ask questions I can strongly recommend the forums over at DVinfo - http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/stabilizers-steadicam-etc/

 

The steadicam forums do really seem like the place for the seasoned big boys, more of a social thing really.

 

To all, the fact people dont search or search, get a thousand results so go down the easy path of asking again is just the way of the interwebs. Im a bit of a forum whore and no matter where you go any public forum will always have people asking questions to which someone will flame "Search!!!!". Its frustrating, just ignore them. Thankfully this place has a newbies forum so many of you can simply ignore it (thank you for not though). Maybe subforums for specific rigs can help. I for example will spend all my days in the pilot forum and never even bother posting in others (just looking).

 

The problem of people asking before searching will always exist, no matter how many times you remind people of the search feature. You can spend your life letting it drive you crazy, or accept it and work past it.

 

To all, I thank you, honestly I really do. To me you guys are like A list celebs and seeing you here is like talking to Tom Cruise (bad example but you get my drift).

[JobScholtze]

Comon Eric, give the guy a break. We ( and I ) get your point, and agree. ( did i say that? ) Point taken, use the search button. But i am sure that when we look back ( and in your case look back a million dollar ;-) ) we all asked stupid questions. I am sure i still do. ( still dont know what lisagav is and i am affraid to ask ) This newbie section asked for 14 dollar rig guys. And if the ask something, the get told to do a search, or move the hell out of here to the hbs or steadi forum. Why bother with this newbie section then. If i am not up to it, i just dont look at that section. But ones in a while, i pick out one of those questions and answer them, that results in advice true pm, wich i still do with matt from italy.

I can understand the guy feels a bit insulted by our replys. The are already uncertain in here.

Perhaps we should change the newbie section to Newbie with 100k rigs section? Dont get me wrong, i agree with your points, just dont scare them away. If its in the archives, just dont answer, the will figure it out sometime.

[Matteo Quagliano]

I have 2 great tips:

One for newbies. Buy Jerry and Laurie' Book. Invaluable. For a newbie it IS a must. And you will see how many questions you have that are unsweared there. Personally I think pretty much all of them, I was thinking that The book can simply elinate the newbie section (just joking it's agreat place to share).

One for Job. I can tell you what Lisigav is. Incredibly I get to know it and also discover that we can have it here in Italy too. Just don't know if I can, I'll have to ask for permission. I'll let you know. By the way, your help for me was invaluable, you put me in the right rails and also has the patience to see my first exrcises. Really a huge Thank you Master Job.

 

Respect the olders.

Matteo

[Danny O'Neill]

The book is absolutely amazing, loving it. Its even answering questions I didnt think of asking. The bit I do love is about the muscles you use and what to keep in trim. Always wondered what I needed to work on down the gym to build the strength and now I know.

[Charles King]

Maybe I should not have started this thread. Looks like things are getting out of hand.... :unsure:

[Danny O'Neill]

I think its just the interpretation of what you say which has caused some friction. I think the fact is anyone who buys a steadicam of any level are generally not just hobbists and is planning on making money from it.

 

We all have to start somewhere and the newbies forum is a great place of us to be dumb with the other forums for you guys to talk about your mahoosive rigs.

 

I still have a smooth shooter. Didnt fancy spending $10,000 on something I may not get on with or be able to use so I got it as it was cheap. Used it, got some good results and am now looking to upgrade. But the tips I picked up here were mostly still valid. A month or 2 and ill get my Pilot. After that maybe a flyer, who knows.