Ben Fisher Posted August 20, 2004 Author Report Share Posted August 20, 2004 "It was never like this at CP Jim..." Dr.Yes@unitcine.com UNITCINE Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Members David Allen Grove Posted August 20, 2004 Premium Members Report Share Posted August 20, 2004 Hope these guys used breath mints before putting on those helmets! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Members joe mcnally Posted August 20, 2004 Premium Members Report Share Posted August 20, 2004 I have recently bought the Zoe 11 from Bebob. Well made unbreakable plastic, they say. Zoom rate pot on the side. Return button and camera start stop, zoom centering pot, no we spell it that way in UK. Not cheap. UK £370-00. Been through 3 x J7's what can I tell you ? Joe McNally Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Members Guido Lux Posted August 21, 2004 Premium Members Report Share Posted August 21, 2004 Hi Zoomers! The cable on the Zoe is way to thick! It's about 5x the size of the Preston cable! If the Prestons electronicbox would be half the size, it'd be perfect! Guido "zooming away" Lux Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Members joe mcnally Posted August 21, 2004 Premium Members Report Share Posted August 21, 2004 Yes Guido I agree it is a little thick but not much diferent than the J7 and that has not been much problem to me. Also I like the idea of the cable being reasonably robust as they do get tugged occasionally. Joe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Members Jeff Muhlstock SOC Posted August 23, 2004 Premium Members Report Share Posted August 23, 2004 This is a much needed device. I have tried em all. The only thing good about the preston unit is the thin cable and the gimbal mount. The presure sensitve red joy stick is just the wrong idea for Steadicam operating. You need a larger degree of play on a toggle type switch ( such as the J-7 or traditional zoom handles). At the same time keep it small and comfy. The product should have cables to run any Video/HD zoom lens, as well as work through an add on servo, such as a Heden or M-1, mabye even digital? Vari-speed control, a must. reverse direction would be nice. Wireless would be the ultimate. Good luck, I ll take 2 of them imediately. Jeff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg(ory) Vanhove Posted August 23, 2004 Report Share Posted August 23, 2004 Hi Ben, I do a lot of live work (SD) and some drama (HD) in Belgium and I agree with Jef, keep it simple, smal and comfy. I use the Zoe II and very happy about it. The only thing is that the remote does not run digital lenses. Vari-speed is a must have. First I used the J7 and it didn't work for me. The zoomspeed was to fast and the ergonomics didn't feel right in my hand. Then I bought the Zoe with the zoom speed controle on the side and turned it way down. I don't have that much trouble with the cable but yes my remote cable it isn't thin at all. Wireless or in combination with your focus remote (Benz 4000 or 5000 for the cine-ops) would be great. Keep it very simple to use. I don't have the time to hasle with memory buttons and settings and other things when I'm on the set. The most important thing it must do is to make a smooth zoom with a nice start and a transparant ending, a recorder start/stop and for the video guy's a video return. Greg(ory) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Members joe mcnally Posted August 23, 2004 Premium Members Report Share Posted August 23, 2004 That'll be a lightweight cable for the Zoe 11 then please :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Members joe mcnally Posted August 23, 2004 Premium Members Report Share Posted August 23, 2004 Hi Greg not sure if it's true that the Zoe 11 does not work on digital lens. I think you are saying it has no use on the Film style TV lens with no built on servo for zoom. My Zoe 11 works on all the digital lens I have used, Canon J11, Fuji A10 and 13. The Zoe also has a tiny centering pot for any troublesome TV lens. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben Fisher Posted August 23, 2004 Author Report Share Posted August 23, 2004 Firstly, I would like to thank all those operators who have contributed suggestions, comments and critique to this project - thank you also to all those who have also made contributions via email. We have reviewed the input to date: Getting an initial handle (no pun intended) on a project like this is normally the tough part. However two specific requirements have come to the top: 1. Zoom unit should be wireless if at all possible. 2. Zoom should use left-right rocker with positive centering. Next on the list: 3. Zoom ?rate? control on handle 4. VTR start/stop control 5. RETURN video control 6. Direction reverse facility Wireless NEWZOOM should be wireless, it should operate in ?harmony? (no interference either way) with all follow focus systems. The short distance the NEWZOOM needs to operate over and the limited amount of data it needs to send means that battery life can be quite considerable. The probability is that the NEWZOOM CONTROL will not have an ON/OFF switch but will ?hibernate? when the RECEIVER is powered down. LED's on the CONTROL & RECEIVER will light when communication is established. We expect to use conventional batteries in the NEWZOOM CONTROL ? rechargeable cells or packs don?t offer any cost or performance advantages in such a low-drain unit. The RECEIVER will be powered either from the Steadicam/Cine camera (when using an external motor) or the video lens (when using the intergrated zoom). It is possible that we will have a ?DATA? socket on the CONTROL for ?hardwiring? the two parts of the system (yes, via a very thin cable!) ? as this is not expected to be used much this feature will only be on the ?wishlist?. As very little space is likely to be available for a ?frequency selector? on the NEWZOOM we will probably opt for a more advanced version of our ?autoseek? system used on our BENZ 4000 & 5000 products. Interfacing The NEWZOOM should operate with all common video lenses (including the latest Digital units) ? also it should operate with external lens motors: Motors Lens motors with tacho-generators are very usable for zoom: Heden M26T, M28VT, M32T, SPF?s out-of-production ZMG-6. The degree of speed control is phenomenal (smooth control is possible down to 0.01% of maximum speed), of course the Achilles Heel of the tacho-generator motor is the lack of end-stops. Digital lens motors can be made to approach the tacho-generator for smoothness and can have end-stops, autocalibrate, etc? It is not lost on us that there is an installed base of Preston & Scorpio motors. Heden also make a digital motor (M26VE). The NEWZOOM will interface to all digital motors, and probably ?T (zoom) motors. [several operators requested that NEWZOOM can interface to the Preston MDR; this will not be necessary as the NEWZOOM will work with Preston motors.] Mechanical We will make the CONTROL physically small ? probably out of billet aluminium. The thumb control is probably going to have a ?grippy? patterned surface, comments welcome on experience with different patterns and/or materials. The general style is more likely to be J7 than ZOE, attention will be paid to reducing the height that the ?thumb? is at during operation (to reduce fatigue). It will mount on the standard 38mm gimbal diameter ? however we are aware that there are several different makes of gimbals available, let me know if yours is different? Other Several operators have also commented on the importance of feathering - we can address smooth starts and stops using a mixture of mechanical design and software based response curves and ?launch? control. Anyone using our 5200-44 iris/zoom handset & 5800 receiver will know the advantage of curved zoom responses. We have looked into adding an on-screen indication of zoom position for the operator; whilst very possible we have decided against it as it would add further complexity to the wiring loom of a typical sled. We have also looked into adding a ?focus? control on the NEWZOOM ? this we are in two minds about as the extra complexity is considerable and it is not featured highly in the responses we have received to date (thoughts???). It goes without saying that a robustness and ease of use are also important. We hope to publish some drawings of at least one proposal for anyone to comment on; this we hope to do shortly. This is certainly proving to be an interesting way of developing product - please keep the comments, suggestions and criticism coming. Regards, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Members Jeff Muhlstock SOC Posted August 24, 2004 Premium Members Report Share Posted August 24, 2004 One last thought, look into optical type control intead of pots, they may hold up better and last longer. Jeff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben Fisher Posted August 24, 2004 Author Report Share Posted August 24, 2004 Thanks Jeff, Optical devices this small (and with the required resolution) are quite expensive -also they draw quite alot of current (for a battery powered unit) and unless the 'absolute' variety (rare) are used they would require some sort of 'centering' procedure. Either a sealed encoder or a sealed NEWZOOM CONTROL would be necessary to gain any major advantage over a conductive plastic potentiometer..... Having said all that we are trawling through ALL posisbilities at the moment. All operators: What is the supply of those natty little AAAA cells like? Are they readily available where you are? Any more thoughts on rocker grip patterns and materials? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Members Lawrence Karman Posted August 28, 2004 Premium Members Report Share Posted August 28, 2004 All operators: What is the supply of those natty little AAAA cells like? Are they readily available where you are? There are 6 of those AAAA cells inside of a 9V battery. It's not too hard to rip those open to gain acess to them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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