The Great Daylight Monitor Shootout

[Iain Baird]

Having always used a digital level, from a built in level on my first Master Series to an external Marell digital level on my present Franken-rig, I wouldn't want to live without one. However I've always thought that it should be mounted as close to the nodal point of the sled as possible, near the post, to eliminate as much panning inertia as you can. Levels are very sensitive to movement and it seems to me that if if the sensor is built into the monitor it would be much more susceptible to panning influences then if it were under or nearer to the post. I welcome the HD Monitor companies having a digital level system as part of the package but the sensor should be externally mountable with a small connecting cable so you can mount it wherever you want.

 

IB

[RonBaldwin]

I've always thought that it should be mounted as close to the nodal point of the sled as possible, near the post, to eliminate as much panning inertia as you can. Levels are very sensitive to movement and it seems to me that if if the sensor is built into the monitor it would be much more susceptible to panning influences then if it were under or nearer to the post.

 

very true -- why I've never been a fan of the "level in the monitor" thing. Both Gregg's PDL and the Pro sensors are very close to the post (I bet the one built into Gregg's sled is right under the post!).

 

Daylight viewable with framelines are good enough for me. Now adding a digi-recorder for playback...that would be cool!

 

rb

[Alec Jarnagin SOC]

Yes, a level sensor should be by the post and not in the monitor. What we are lacking is a multi-format digital level (NTSC, PAL, SDI, HDSDI) that can be mounted externally.

 

As for the recorder being built into the monitor, I used to think that was a great idea, but I've been through countless recorders since I bought my TB-6 making me realize that form of technology quickly becomes obsolete so I don't want to be stuck with it down the line. Can you imagine if the TB-6 had an 8mm deck built in???? Even in a less severe case, how may new card readers have you bought over the years because bigger, faster cards come out that your old reader can't read - if that were in your monitor you'd be stuck with it.

[RonBaldwin]

You are right about being stuck with something obsolete, but I hope whatever lcd I buy lasts half as long as my TB-6 has so far (Dec '97 and still going!). I think the technology we are talking about here will be around a while and take up very little space and weight. Just for example how much would an Archos (or your set-up) weigh without the case and battery?

 

I'm all for a stand alone solid state recorder with easy user accessible buttons or remote but they are...where are they?

 

Hope all is well back there! I miss NY.

 

rb

[Charles Papert]

Reasonable points Alec, although I think that we will be living with the HD-SDI format for a while and firmware updates should take care of recording codecs as they improve, etc. Even though newer/better/faster flash systems will come out, we wouldn't need to take advantage of them. At worst I'd like to see an outboard recorder module that snaps onto the back of the monitor with the controls available through the front panel buttons, which would take care of future-proofing

 

I'm talking to a company about a recorder they are working on that will be roughly 2x4x2, accept composite and HD-SDI and record either SD or HD, with tape-transport/DVD player style controls--in other words, exactly what we want. And it will be under $1000. Unfortunately they are still in the development stages with it, but I'm keeping a close eye.

[Erwin Landau]

Hey Alec,

 

Going through GPI's "Was a great Prototype, but time moved on and I'm out a couple of grand" section...

 

George had all the parts to build a PRO Monitor internal PCMCIA slot (which was hot at the time)... it sits in a cardboard box beside a mini harddrive with controller (price point $8000.- in parts back when)...

 

Just if you are wondering why the PRO 3 monitor still has no recording capabilities...

 

I used to own.... Sony Micro MV, Archos 300, 400, 500. Sony PC-5, Panasonic AV-1, etc... yet to find something that works...

BTW anybody has a Micro MV Player? I have about 50 tapes that I can't play back...

[BernieKeach]

I am glad we got through. Now what about a digital level? I know its not nearly as simple but it would put you in a while nother class when it comes to steadicam monitors.

 

~Jess

 

That is another great point Jess and YES we will add a digital level. The Engineer for this project has a good understanding of the requirements in your market and has the greenlight to add some very cool features. Look for the new monitor to be posted on our web site in about 90 days.

[Erwin Landau]

Hello Bernie Keach,

 

Welcome to our Forum.

 

We do appreciate you being involved and posting here but please could you change your login to your real name. You can still sign with Marshall Electronics.

We deal with people not Companies... As you can see there are no Company names used as login exempt for yours.

 

Thank you very much.

 

Sincerely,

 

Erwin

[Jon Beattie]

read through most of the thread.

 

Didn't notice any mention of the bulgarian monitor and how it preformed. I take that it wasn't much of a head turner or hot topic like some of the other monitors and situations.

 

Totally down for a east cost shoot out. If anyone has started putting it together I'd be more than happy to help.

[Erwin Landau]

Jon,

 

Contact Alec Jarnagain, he and the SOC east coast are in full swing of preparations.

 

Have fun guys.

[RonBaldwin]

Didn't notice any mention of the bulgarian monitor and how it preformed. I take that it wasn't much of a head turner or hot topic like some of the other monitors and situations.

 

I'm not familiar with the Boland, but a few there said it had the same menu. It did better than the Bolands because it didn't have the crappy matte coating on the screen (instead of "anti-reflective" they should call it "anti-picture" coating). I don't remember it doing all that bad, but definitely not any better than the others we've been praising.

 

I have about a dozen pictures from the day...but this site can't seem to handle the pictures anymore. I was also waiting for Charles' photog to re-emerge from hiding (I think Boland sent her to Siberia) to see her pictures which I'm certain are much better.

 

rb

[Robert Starling SOC]

..I have about a dozen pictures from the day...but this site can't seem to handle the pictures anymore. I was also waiting for Charles' photog to re-emerge from hiding (I think Boland sent her to Siberia) to see her pictures which I'm certain are much better.

 

Hey Ron!

 

Send me the photos if you want via SendSpace.com and I'll post / host them on one of our Internet servers for you.

 

Robert

[RonBaldwin]

thanks will do (they are basically the same ones I sent you). Did you get to spend time with the Transvideo like you had planned?

 

rb

[Robert Starling SOC]

thanks will do (they are basically the same ones I sent you). Did you get to spend time with the Transvideo like you had planned?

 

Hey Ron,

 

Yes, I spent nearly four hours at Transvideo on Tuesday with my rig and an HD camera. The biggest test was if the 7 pin lemo component HD run already down my post would run HD-SDI and thankfully the answer was yes; no problem. That at least was one hurdle out of the way.

 

Marianne and Noell spent a lot of time working out the logical cabling scenario to run HD, SD and also live shows with tally. They built two cables and backups I can use for the demo this weekend. Again, it all came together just fine. I can run power and SD with my existing monitor cabling and HD and tally come through the 7 pin lemo.

 

The next step was the physical mount to the yoke for my existing monitor; they have an adapter kit for it which is a little tight on the bottom clearance but can be worked around or modified easily. The only thing I didn't like about the yoke adapter was the giant knobs on the side... the cheap knobs gotta go!

 

I tested the monitor today outside for a while on a RED camera prep with no problems. It was 112 degs F + here today so I overheated before the monitor and RED did! Tomorrow I'm doing a live shoot with a Sony 1500 on a Limp Bizkit concert at the Palms but thankfully it is indoors. I'll probably try to test it again on Sunday with a friends HD camera.

 

Will try to take some photos of the mount and cabling time permitting tomorrow and Sunday before I send it back on Monday.

 

Robert

[Robert Starling SOC]

As posted above I demoed the Transvideo HD monitor this past weekend on the Limp Bizkit concert. It was indoors so daylight viewing was irrelevant. I used it for the show in Standard Calibration not high brightness... it's plenty bright in either mode for daylight viewing.

 

This was my first shoot with an HD monitor on the rig so no matter what it was gorgeous compared to my 7" SD 700 nit Tiffen LCD. For once I could actually 100% trust the HD focus when lensed in on a tight shot. Contrast, color, brightness were all there as it should be with such a nice monitor. The functions are easy to follow without a manual and all the controls, buttons, connectors etc seem to be of the highest quality. Transvideo supplied a special adapter set so the monitor would fit my existing yoke and tilt on the center axis.

 

It was a live to tape multi-cam shoot and oddly we didn't have tally or program return so I didn't get to test the tally live. We did test tally though at the prep on Tuesday and I really like the OSD corner tally markers. Being a fiber show, I was only powering my Stanton zoom / focus and the monitor so basically I only used two PowerCubes the whole day (though I did put a fresh set on before the show).

 

The OSD level function worked well and once I found the style I liked it was pretty much set it and forget it. This is my first time working live with an OSD level so while I would glance at it occasionally down along the bottom to confirm what I thought level was or wasn't I don't think my eye is trained to look for it yet.

 

During my RED prep on Friday and during the soundcheck I worked with the waveforms a bit but became bored with them and ultimately turned them off for the show. Nice to have and something I think would be useful when the DP walks up and wants to adjust exposure while looking at my Steadi monitor, but too distracting during a shoot for me.

 

Basically, I'm at a loss as to what to report beyond this and maybe this is too much :blink: I'm definitely going to purchase an HD monitor for my rig because going back now will suck. By the same token, with all the build-up and hype I thought it would somehow be more exciting and revolutionary... to a degree it was but once I started working it simply became another tool not like a new motorcycle or trip Alaska! I don't mean this to sound quite so lack-luster but it is after all just a tool to use to make my job easier and hopefully help me improve my work in the process.

 

The one thing that ran through my mind a few times is that the HD viewable image is definitely smaller than the 7" I'm used to and it seems such a shame that the native 4:3 shape of the LCD means that during the show there's some unused space along the bottom. If it were 16:9 native screen size it would be absolutely perfect.

 

Also, I want to thank and recognize the time and work Marianne and Noell put into making it a successful demo. It was the only monitor they had available and consequently I really didn't get enough time with it to test it on a variety of jobs indoors and out with HD, SD and video tap. I think before I plunk down the money I'm going to need to try it on a few different types of jobs.

 

Any specific questions from anyone???

 

Robert